When I tried Kakoune, it seemed like a really cool idea and implementation, but it didn't seem like their configuration language had basic functions for string manipulation, path testing, etc. So a common pattern with plugins etc. was to shell out to sed, awk, etc, which was a _huge_ turnoff. I now use Neovim, but if they have recently implemented that functionality, I'd be willing to give Kakoune another shot
Kakoune Code Editor
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Re: Kakoune Code Editor
#32Once you realise that it's, er, let's say, inspired by vim, you look at the logo and see that it's basically a clone of the vim logo/icon - the orange part of the K looks like the V in the vim icon, and the green lozenge background is almost exactly the same. Which makes it even stranger that they are trying to hide that - there is no mention of vi/vim on the site's landing page. Ok, I understand that they are wary that mentioning "vi(m)" could scare people away, but come on, they are going to find out anyway sooner or later and lose interest then, so what's the point?
Also, what happened to proudly mentioning your software is open source and all the "fork me on GitHub" ribbons/banners/whatever? They seem a bit shy on that too - which is all the more bizarre because most of the links in the top navigation actually go to GitHub, but none of them are labeled "source code".
Re: Kakoune Code Editor
#33Anything in there that would make an avid vim user to switch?
Re: Kakoune Code Editor
#34Is the extension language kakounescript documented somewhere ? I am having a hard time finding a reference. I wish they just used lua/js though.
Kak is mostly self-documenting, but there are a few :doc pages that give more detail. Of particular interest are the commands [0] and command parsing [1] pages. Those will get you started.
Kakscript does not have any control flow beyond a simple try/catch mechanism - for anything complex, you use shell scripting [2]. It is both a blessing and a curse - making it extremely easy to integrate with other tools, but causing some pain if you don't know shell scripting already.
[0]: https://github.com/mawww/kakoune/blob/master/doc/pages/comma...
[1]: https://github.com/mawww/kakoune/blob/master/doc/pages/comma...
[2]: https://github.com/mawww/kakoune/blob/master/doc/pages/expan...
Re: Kakoune Code Editor
#35It seems to be a decent editor. I did not like the kak config files and the syntax it uses for some reason. That’s one of the main reasons I stayed away from it. Gonna check again to see if anything changed.
> I did not like the kak config files and the syntax it uses for some reason.
Maybe I have Kakoune Stockholm syndrome but I actually like the syntax of it's config/script files.
- The "kakscript language" is really quite minimalist. This makes it easy to remember and extremely consistent. It is designed to serve as a "glue" language rather than a fully powered language.
- To write plugins you have to work with kakscript and (Posix) shell script (bash, dash etc.) or a basic shell script that in turn works with a program written in another language (Perl, Python, Rust etc.). It's difficult to explain on HN but the kakouneoutside world integration is one of the nicest I've seen. There is very little ceremony and you can be up and running really quickly.
- The creator of Kakoune is very reluctant to add more features to kakscript. While languages around us quickly accrue features and syntax, keeping kakscript limited means that you are forced to write more complicated code in languages that have been designed to be truly general purpose and not in kakscript
Re: Kakoune Code Editor
#36Hmm, how would you replicate the alignment operation they show in the gif using vim? I couldn't immediately think of how to do it. I guess you could select the block, then maybe s/\>\s\ That doesn't feel like the right solution though... maybe a macro, something like qa^wi q then visual select and :norm@a? I dunno.
I use the vim easy align plugin for that. You could replicate it with "ga2 ", so go align 2nd space seperated.
There are a few alignment modes for the last character (instead of the space), e.g. "|" for markdown and "&" latex tables.
Re: Kakoune Code Editor
#37Kakoune does not yet have an interactive tutorial, like vim's `vimtutor` -- its developer community has mixed feelings about the need to develop an analogue. In lieu of it, there exists a document called TRAMPOLINE that is meant to help new users get up to speed quickly. It is available here: https://github.com/mawww/kakoune/blob/master/contrib/TRAMPOL...
kakoune is more discoverable than vim.
You get an explanation of each command and its arguments, plus suggestions and completion, without the need for any plugin.
The basics of the vim tutorial still apply to kakoune.
Re: Kakoune Code Editor
#38The person that decided on the launch command 'kak' is not Dutch for sure :)
Though I guess most 3-letter words mean something bad in one language or another :P
Re: Kakoune Code Editor
#39When I tried Kakoune, it seemed like a really cool idea and implementation, but it didn't seem like their configuration language had basic functions for string manipulation, path testing, etc. So a common pattern with plugins etc. was to shell out to sed, awk, etc, which was a _huge_ turnoff. I now use Neovim, but if they have recently implemented that functionality, I'd be willing to give Kakoune another shot
Shelling out was a turnoff for me also initially but I've learn to embrace it. Kakoune tries not to re-invent the wheel. If sh/sed/awk/perl/other unix tools do the job well, might as well use them. That is the philosophy I think.
I like the fact that using Kakoune has improved my shell script skills like crazy. (Posix) shell scripting is just everywhere and is an important skill to have. Kakoune uses shell integration everywhere and I've come to appreciate the the pragmatism/elegance of the "kakscript as a glue language paradigm".
Re: Kakoune Code Editor
#40There is a Kakoune-inspired VSCode extension. [1] [1] https://github.com/71/dance
I've used this extension -- its nice -- but it can never give you the full experience.
If you're new to Kakoune, I'd recommend just using the real Kakoune for a while and see if you like it. Once you truly understand the object/verb modal editing (vi is verb/object) + multiple cursors paradigm you might love it, as I did.