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If you don’t have pet projects, I don’t think I want you

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Re: If you don’t have pet projects, I don’t think I want you

#31
post #24

If you have a life, I don't want you. If you have a family, I don't want you. If you have enough energy to do your work but not enough energy that after work you can work some more, I don't want you. What is it that makes employers so enamored of people with 'pet projects'? Are they easier to take advantage of? Do they work long hours without expecting compensation? Does not having dependents mean that it's easier to…

pet projects answer a thousand questions that a cv and an interview cannot.

What type of work does this person enjoy, are they building libraries for developers or products for end users, A lot of time people will open source their side projects, you get insight into their working practices, how clean their code is, do they test, do they get caught up in details and not the end product.

Sometimes people pets projects are working on a large open source project, for employers I believe that is the jackpot, you have their communication with users and peers, the output of their work and the thought processes that go along with it.

Employing people is not about giving every developer in the world an equal opportunity for a job, its about finding the best people for your team in a minimum amount of effort

Re: If you don’t have pet projects, I don’t think I want you

#32
post #23

The assumption that pet projects cannot be related to our work is weird to me. My full-time job title right now is "Newspaper Editor" — so you know the programming I do is not "work assignments" — but I have a whole host of tools I've written to automate the less-interesting parts of the job (from simple things like "calculate how many inches this will take" to more complicated things like "generate the files needed…

This is the first thing I thought as well. Good programmers can have a wide selection of choice when it comes to their work, so I think they will often choose work they enjoy and can even get paid to work on 'pet projects'

At the moment the stuff I enjoyed writing the most I also got paid for. Does that indicate a lack of 'passion'?

Re: If you don’t have pet projects, I don’t think I want you

#33
Free time is not equivalent to passion. Basing relationships on the internal emotional state of other people is pretty risky The passionately wrong are usually harder to deal with.

It's hit or miss, but a Great Deal of Robin Hanson's blog is about social signalling and the biases inherent thereof. Worthwhile effort, that.

Re: If you don’t have pet projects, I don’t think I want you

#34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're hiring a software engineer and that person programs in their spare time, it is a pretty clear indication that they not only want to be a software engineer but also enjoys programming. I used to ask this question, but now I've generalized it to asking if someone has any hobbies. I find passion in any area to a good indicator of the type of people I want to hire.

The problem is that programming in your spare time is not a necessary condition for enjoying or having passion for programming. Further, its also discriminatory against people with families, or other hobbies, or against people who don't want to do the same thing that they did 40-50 hours during the week on the weekends too.

Let's be clear: it's only discriminatory against people that don't have pet projects. Having a family or other hobbies and having pet projects are not mutually exclusive.

Re: If you don’t have pet projects, I don’t think I want you

#35
post #24

If you have a life, I don't want you. If you have a family, I don't want you. If you have enough energy to do your work but not enough energy that after work you can work some more, I don't want you. What is it that makes employers so enamored of people with 'pet projects'? Are they easier to take advantage of? Do they work long hours without expecting compensation? Does not having dependents mean that it's easier to…

pet projects answer a thousand questions that a cv and an interview cannot. What type of work does this person enjoy, are they building libraries for developers or products for end users, A lot of time people will open source their side projects, you get insight into their working practices, how clean their code is, do they test, do they get caught up in details and not the end product. Sometimes people pets projects…

> pet projects answer a thousand questions that a cv and an interview cannot.

If the answer is 'no' you'd have to ask a lot of follow up questions, some of those may be illegal, to decide whether or not having pet projects is even a possibility for the applicant.

> What type of work does this person enjoy, are they building libraries for developers or products for end users, A lot of time people will open source their side projects, you get insight into their working practices, how clean their code is, do they test, do they get caught up in details and not the end product.

Yes, that may be true. But having pet projects is not a pre-requisite for employment anywhere.

If you can not assert the ability of your applicants during an interview by asking them job related questions then maybe you should let someone else do the hiring?

> Sometimes people pets projects are working on a large open source project, for employers I believe that is the jackpot, you have their communication with users and peers, the output of their work and the thought processes that go along with it.

That is absolutely the wrong reason to go for this particular applicant because that is simply none of your business. You get what you pay for, the time they spend on the jobsite and the output they generate during that time. You have zero title to 'their communications with users and peers' and so on, and if you lay any claim to those then you're a very bad company to work for (yes, I know there are companies that do just that).

> Employing people is not about giving every developer in the world an equal opportunity for a job, its about finding the best people for your team in a minimum amount of effort

Surprise. Employing people is all about fairness and treating your applicants - and your employers - with dignity. What they do or do not do during their time off is none of your business.

The reason I would not want to work for a company like that is because I would doubt the long term viability of a company that sticks their nose in places where it does not belong.

Typically this is indicative of a 'we hire people like us' mentality. You will likely find that places like that employ just stereotypical copies of the person that runs the place instead of being representative of the workforce in general.

Re: If you don’t have pet projects, I don’t think I want you

#37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Put simply, we are looking for a .NET developer and one of the most important things that we look for is passion" How much passion is there in the .NET scene anyway? It's very business oriented, I'd expect developers to be more sort of corporate and better at time reporting. It's not like you have to be a hipster to churn out spreadsheet automation scripts.

Stackoverflow is written in .NET. It certainly has a more "corporate" focus than node or something - but that's not to say there aren't people building cool applications with it.

Yep, .NET has lots of things going for it.

I'd expect that the average .NET developer is a lot less likely to be sharing code on github than the average rails developer though.

Re: If you don’t have pet projects, I don’t think I want you

#38
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

pet projects answer a thousand questions that a cv and an interview cannot. What type of work does this person enjoy, are they building libraries for developers or products for end users, A lot of time people will open source their side projects, you get insight into their working practices, how clean their code is, do they test, do they get caught up in details and not the end product. Sometimes people pets projects…

> pet projects answer a thousand questions that a cv and an interview cannot. If the answer is 'no' you'd have to ask a lot of follow up questions, some of those may be illegal, to decide whether or not having pet projects is even a possibility for the applicant. > What type of work does this person enjoy, are they building libraries for developers or products for end users, A lot of time people will open source thei…

The best way to hire people is and has always been by personal recommendation from somebody you trust.

Re: If you don’t have pet projects, I don’t think I want you

#40

I actually reject people without pet projects for an entirely different reason. I can find out much more about how you behave as a developer and whether or not you'd fit in with our company by reading your code than I can from any kind of interview or whiteboard challenge. Ideally you'd actually hire the prospective developer for a short contract project before hiring, but that has significant challenges and costs as…

Then give them a coding problem that takes a short amount of time but allows you to evaluate their skills. I relish these opportunities and respect the companies that ask me to do them.

To keep with your metaphor, ask the carpenter to make you a cabinet door.

Again, I agree with others here... if you're passionate about the startup you're working at (and you should be), that is your side project. I distrust people who work at startups that have side projects.

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