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LatencyFleX: A new approach to game latency reduction

ishitatsuyuki.github.io

31–40 of 69 posts

Re: LatencyFleX: A new approach to game latency reduction

#31
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1 or 2, depends on the kind of modem. VDSL2+ modems might have three, though one of those is the line driver which is zero-delay for the purposes of a computer.

I've seen many more chips last time I opened one....

Most of those chips have zero impact on latency, and many aren't even involved in the actual packet flow.

Re: LatencyFleX: A new approach to game latency reduction

#32
post #27
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By that logic, every sports player that uses high quality gear is "paying to win". Is Nadal winning solely based on the quality of his racquet? Of course not. Would he play with a basic or low quality one? Absolutely not. What's wrong using the best gear possible? I don't know where'd you get this notion that it stops at 120hz. It's been proven again and again that even with monitors with low refresh rate you still g…

To be fair, it is a big factor in competitive cycling. Such that, just getting good is not enough. You have to get good and but the best equipment. Not that big of a deal when you are all getting together in real life. You can see if you were at a disadvantage due to equipment. Online, you don't get to see.

There's nothing unique about competitive cycling in this regard. Take two tennis players of comparable skill and give one the best racket and the other a $20 one from Walmart. Or in football, do the same with two receivers and give one the latest Nike Vapor Jet gloves and have the other use no gloves. Or golf with clubs. I could go on and on.

Equipment quality will always have an impact in sports.

Re: LatencyFleX: A new approach to game latency reduction

#33
post #6

The elephant in the room here is that you can pay to win in any game by buying a monitor with higher reftesh rate and use a larger GPU that uses more electricity to have 2x more time to react. Fortunately for us humans that seems to stop at 120Hz because most games can't even hold that at a steady rate with a 3090. Now whether a 300+W gaming device is interesting in the long run will be answered this year by your ele…

> The elephant in the room here is that you can pay to win in any game by buying a monitor with higher reftesh rate and use a larger GPU that uses more electricity to have 2x more time to react.

I'll be honest, it sounds like you have no idea how competitive gaming works, or any sport at all. Your comments sounds exactly like thinking one can be better at football by buying more expensive boots.

Re: LatencyFleX: A new approach to game latency reduction

#34
I just want to say I am glad pro gaming took over. Back in the day it was only Quake players advocating for 120 FPS (for various reasons, including Q3 physics being somewhat broken), 125hz mice and stuff like that. I am talking 20 years ago.

The number of lost souls parroting the old "human eye can only see 30 fps" has gone down considerably over the years. The last 10 years were fantastic in that regard, despite the whole RGB craze.

Even CS servers have 100 Hz heartbeat these days. Of course, by the time we get 1khz displays I'll be too old to enjoy it myself but still likely to put a bittersweet smile on my face.

Re: LatencyFleX: A new approach to game latency reduction

#35
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many CPUs have USB support. Pin count also doesn't correlate to latency, what matters is the minimum buffer size and transfer speed. USB can beat PS/2 for latency without issue.

Isn't PS/2 interrupt based, while USB is based on periodic polling?

Polling is often lower latency than interrupts on modern hardware, since it can run at much finer grains and has so much less overhead to startup over an ISR.

Re: LatencyFleX: A new approach to game latency reduction

#36

I just want to say I am glad pro gaming took over. Back in the day it was only Quake players advocating for 120 FPS (for various reasons, including Q3 physics being somewhat broken), 125hz mice and stuff like that. I am talking 20 years ago. The number of lost souls parroting the old "human eye can only see 30 fps" has gone down considerably over the years. The last 10 years were fantastic in that regard, despite the…

There's definitely diminishing returns the higher we go with refresh rates. 60hz to 240hz for example is like playing a completely different game. But going from 240hz to 360hz, even in CSGO it's a lot harder to notice a difference.

Personally I believe the newly announced 300hz 27" 1440p monitors[0] are going to be the perfect sweet spot for the foreseeable future. I imagine it will be a long time before technology emerges that is a noticeable improvement to this.

[0]: https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforce/news/new-g-sync-monitor...

Re: LatencyFleX: A new approach to game latency reduction

#37
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't PS/2 interrupt based, while USB is based on periodic polling?

Polling is often lower latency than interrupts on modern hardware, since it can run at much finer grains and has so much less overhead to startup over an ISR.

That's often true on a scale of microseconds, but USB input devices are polled at intervals on millisecond scale.

Re: LatencyFleX: A new approach to game latency reduction

#38
post #3

I usually get 10ms ping on CSGO.... they must have something better? (I have 5ms right now with a Comcast cable link)... as much as I hate having to call Comcast for any issues, when it works, it is pretty good.)

Input lag has nothing to do with network ping. Input lag is the time between you perform the action and the computer shows that on screen. It depends on your frame rate, refresh rate, and peripheral polling rate, as well as how good the game schedules things (which is what LatencyFleX tries to optimize). Network ping on the other hand is often hidden away. Whether you are on 2ms ping or 100ms ping, the bullet always…

Thanks for that link. Very interesting!

Re: LatencyFleX: A new approach to game latency reduction

#39
post #37
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Polling is often lower latency than interrupts on modern hardware, since it can run at much finer grains and has so much less overhead to startup over an ISR.

That's often true on a scale of microseconds, but USB input devices are polled at intervals on millisecond scale.

Only in the slowest modes. It is possible to go faster than the 1ms poll rate, though it is back to interrupts:

> Transaction latency

> For low speed (1.5 Mbit/s) and full speed (12 Mbit/s) devices the shortest time for a transaction in one direction is 1 ms.[6] High speed (480 Mbit/s) uses transactions within each micro frame (125 µs)[7] where using 1-byte interrupt packet results in a minimal response time of 940 ns. 4-byte interrupt packet results in 984 ns.

https://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB_(Communications)

Re: LatencyFleX: A new approach to game latency reduction

#40

I just want to say I am glad pro gaming took over. Back in the day it was only Quake players advocating for 120 FPS (for various reasons, including Q3 physics being somewhat broken), 125hz mice and stuff like that. I am talking 20 years ago. The number of lost souls parroting the old "human eye can only see 30 fps" has gone down considerably over the years. The last 10 years were fantastic in that regard, despite the…

I believe that nonsense was originally send in the world by the movie industry to have an argument for not increasing the roll sizes and weights to disproportionate sizes. Not to mention that the earliest film rolls were also highly incendiary giving even more incentive not to make them too big or store too many
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