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New‐onset autoimmune phenomena post‐Covid‐19 vaccination

onlinelibrary.wiley.com

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Re: New‐onset autoimmune phenomena post‐Covid‐19 vaccination

#31

Post by core-utility »

alexmcc81 wrote: post #24
walterbell wrote: post #17

I wish we could have a disclaimer on every article/study about vaccine side effects, something like: "This is not an attack on vaccines, pharmaceutical interventions, associated stakeholders or policy makers. This is not a statistical assessment of risk for specific audiences. Please focus feedback and resources on specific treatments for the living human beings who have been injured. Even one in a million is of litt…

Thanks you for this thoughtful response. I chose to be vaccinated and unfortunately have suffered serious consequences like a very small number of other people will statistically. It's been pretty disheartening to see that sharing anything negative about vaccines, even those warned about by medical officials, leads to very negative reactions from people (being told to shut up, being censored/downvoted online etc). I…

That is awful to hear. I unfortunately think this entire debacle will leave a lasting distrust of our medical providers and institutions. Vaccine hesitant are already distrustful, and I believe in the coming months/year as more stand up to the censorship of these real issues, a growing number of vaccinated will feel mislead and lied to (whether justified or not). The only recovery path I can see is the return of a strong level of informed consent between patient and provider, and big tech getting out of the healthcare game.

Re: New‐onset autoimmune phenomena post‐Covid‐19 vaccination

#32

Post by robbiep »

yunohn wrote: post #20
raverbashing wrote: post #6

Anyone that's worried about autoimmune phenomena after vaccination should look at autoimmune phenomena post Covid infection

But you can get COVID after vaccination too? How exactly does your argument sway someone either way? Just saying that both the disease and the vaccine cause the same side effects is not much of an argument… Disclaimer: I’m fully vaccinated.

But they aren’t in the same magnitude - for example, incidences of peri/myocarditis is 30x (at a minimum) greater in someone who has COVID vs someone vaccinated; and vaccination leads to shorter milder breakthrough infections which (should - I can’t claim to have seen a study) lead to a lower incidence compared to someone who was unvaccinated and infected

Re: New‐onset autoimmune phenomena post‐Covid‐19 vaccination

#33

Post by bsder »

ageitgey wrote: post #15

This is a pretty non-controversial paper and doesn't contain anything shocking or previously unknown, but the title has the potential to cause controversy. Here's my quick summary: - Previous vaccines for HPV, Hepatitis B and Flu are known to (rarely) trigger or worsen autoimmune diseases such as Guillain-Barré syndrome. - Lots of new Covid vaccines have been created globally using a wide variety of technologies (mRN…

The main problem I have with all these papers is that they don't compare to the rates of symptoms from having had Covid.

A lot of the idiocy these kinds of papers cause would be muted if you could point at the paper and say "Probably of X from vaccine--N%. Probability of X from Covid--N+M%."

Of course, if the probability of X is less than with Covid--that's important to know, as well. It defines which vaccines we should be administering.

Re: New‐onset autoimmune phenomena post‐Covid‐19 vaccination

#34

Post by walterbell »

alexmcc81 wrote: post #24
walterbell wrote: post #17

I wish we could have a disclaimer on every article/study about vaccine side effects, something like: "This is not an attack on vaccines, pharmaceutical interventions, associated stakeholders or policy makers. This is not a statistical assessment of risk for specific audiences. Please focus feedback and resources on specific treatments for the living human beings who have been injured. Even one in a million is of litt…

Thanks you for this thoughtful response. I chose to be vaccinated and unfortunately have suffered serious consequences like a very small number of other people will statistically. It's been pretty disheartening to see that sharing anything negative about vaccines, even those warned about by medical officials, leads to very negative reactions from people (being told to shut up, being censored/downvoted online etc). I…

If "information is surprise" (Claude Shannon, 1948, https://plus.maths.org/content/information-surprise), we should be celebrating rather than censoring surprising information signals from living human outliers.

Re: New‐onset autoimmune phenomena post‐Covid‐19 vaccination

#35

Post by robbiep »

refurb wrote: post #29
raverbashing wrote: post #6

Anyone that's worried about autoimmune phenomena after vaccination should look at autoimmune phenomena post Covid infection

Ok, but if I get vaccines I’m exposed, but may not be exposed to Covid or at least a variant that causes an immune disorder.

You’re at a 30x (minimum) increased risk, as well as running a 0.5-2% chance of dying depending on your state of health. If you’re less than 18, you have a higher risk of type 1 OR type 2 diabetes. Anyone who willingly runs that risk in the light of a (let’s face it, extremely safe) alternative is making some sort of strange calculus that is not in any way rational

Re: New‐onset autoimmune phenomena post‐Covid‐19 vaccination

#36

Post by gcr »

walterbell wrote: post #17

I wish we could have a disclaimer on every article/study about vaccine side effects, something like: "This is not an attack on vaccines, pharmaceutical interventions, associated stakeholders or policy makers. This is not a statistical assessment of risk for specific audiences. Please focus feedback and resources on specific treatments for the living human beings who have been injured. Even one in a million is of litt…

I appreciate how the abstract points this out:

> In fact, we do not aim to disavow the overwhelming benefits of mass COVID-19 vaccination in preventing COVID-19 morbidity and mortality

Re: New‐onset autoimmune phenomena post‐Covid‐19 vaccination

#37

Post by yunohn »

robbiep wrote: post #32
yunohn wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But you can get COVID after vaccination too? How exactly does your argument sway someone either way? Just saying that both the disease and the vaccine cause the same side effects is not much of an argument… Disclaimer: I’m fully vaccinated.

But they aren’t in the same magnitude - for example, incidences of peri/myocarditis is 30x (at a minimum) greater in someone who has COVID vs someone vaccinated; and vaccination leads to shorter milder breakthrough infections which (should - I can’t claim to have seen a study) lead to a lower incidence compared to someone who was unvaccinated and infected

Yes, that’s my doubt as well. Until we have more unbiased studies coming out, we can’t determine the impact of these side effects.

The problem with pro-vaccine propaganda is that it tells you to blindly listen to the science. The problem with that is “the science” is controlled by commercial interests and profit margins. It’s like telling everyone democracy is the One True Way and we end up in last-stage capitalism.

Re: New‐onset autoimmune phenomena post‐Covid‐19 vaccination

#38

Post by throwaway2474 »

robbiep wrote: post #23
alexmcc81 wrote: post #14

I'm in this boat. I'm worried I now have a life long disability before 35. I'm waiting for an appointment with a Rheumatology consultant and I have been told by my doctor they have been inundated with people with post COVID vaccine side effects. Edit: I would like to hear other people's experiences if they are willing to post them.

I’m sorry to hear about your issues. With respect, I’ll take a stand against your claim of there being a tsunami of patients with vaccine injuries innundating rheumatologists - I am in the field and continue to ask colleagues if they are seeing anything of the sort and no-one has seen anything like this. However, if it is happening, we will surely see it in the data. Australia is almost fully vaccinated (but also mor…

Australian with pericarditis here. Both my cardiologist and GP told me they’ve seen a flood of patients (mostly 30-something men) and both told me separately that the published numbers are obviously wrong.

What I think is occurring, at least in the case of myo/pericarditis, is that nobody reports cases unless the outcome is really bad. GPs do not habitually report to the TGA, and most specialists don’t either. So the official numbers are really only those who went to hospital and it was bad enough that someone bothered to fill out the TGA form.

Re: New‐onset autoimmune phenomena post‐Covid‐19 vaccination

#40

Post by _pmf_ »

raverbashing wrote: post #6

Anyone that's worried about autoimmune phenomena after vaccination should look at autoimmune phenomena post Covid infection

> Anyone that's worried about autoimmune phenomena after vaccination should look at autoimmune phenomena post Covid infection

Hard to ignore, what with this being shoved down my throat 24/7 for 1.5 years.

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