Longform.org is shutting down its article recommendations service • Hacker News Board

Re: Longform.org is shutting down its article recommendations service

#31

Post by reincarnate0x14 » Thu, Jan 06, 2022, 9:06 AM UTC

md_ wrote: post #29

reincarnate0x14 wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I love the scheme of repeatedly building up towards the answer to one of the central questions of the subject and then yanking the rug, digressing into some backstory of a minor personage or historic aside to pad out another page. And by love I mean absolutely despise.

What really gets me is how, in narrative fiction, the author knows what's going to happen in the plot at the very beginning, but they only gradually reveal it to the reader throughout the story.

Composing narrative fiction by ending every chapter in a cliffhanger is an excellent way to get your readers to skip to the end and then throw it away.

Re: Longform.org is shutting down its article recommendations service

#32

Post by probably_wrong » Thu, Jan 06, 2022, 9:07 AM UTC

I am sorry to see them go, but more for the principle than for the site itself.

I gave up on the site when I realized that I was spending more time scrolling for something interesting than actually reading articles. Even now, out of their top 10 "best of 2021" I find only 3 of those even remotely interesting, and IMHO one of them is garbage (I read it when it came out).

The type of articles I like the most are those when someone takes a ridiculous amount of time to explain something mundane. The Guardian's article on what will happen when the Queen dies [1] is my go-to example of long form journalism done right. longform.org articles always felt more like "here's a sad story about some global issue", which is not the type of article I want to read during my commute.

[1] https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/mar/16/what-happens...

Re: Longform.org is shutting down its article recommendations service

#33

Post by anthropodie » Thu, Jan 06, 2022, 9:18 AM UTC

optimalsolver wrote: post #7

Alternatives: Arts & Letters Daily : https://aldaily.com/ Aeon: https://aeon.co/ Nautilus: https://nautil.us/ Hacker News: https://news.ycombinator.com/

https://psyche.co/

Re: Longform.org is shutting down its article recommendations service

#34

Post by ratww » Thu, Jan 06, 2022, 9:28 AM UTC

otabdeveloper4 wrote: post #19

jmnicolas wrote: post #18

Never heard of this site before, but if I could hazard a guess to why they're shutting down, who nowadays has the time to read a long text for leisure? Not many people I guess. My opinion is that the information loop has entered hyper velocity and anything long form cannot be mainstream anymore. If I take my case as an example, the only activity where I focus for more than 5 minutes is coding. I skim news just readin…

Really? The short story is now a dead artform. Even 'trilogies' aren't a thing anymore - anything less than five thick tomes doesn't sell. Movies are now three hours long, but even that seems to be a half-measure and the cinematic form is now being replaced by miniseries. (I remember when a 90 hour movie was considered long.)

Yep. The fact most of my friends binged the Beatles 9 hour documentary in one or two days still surprises me. I also did the same. People do have time.

Re: Longform.org is shutting down its article recommendations service

#35

Post by phgn » Thu, Jan 06, 2022, 9:41 AM UTC

probably_wrong wrote: post #32

I am sorry to see them go, but more for the principle than for the site itself. I gave up on the site when I realized that I was spending more time scrolling for something interesting than actually reading articles. Even now, out of their top 10 "best of 2021" I find only 3 of those even remotely interesting, and IMHO one of them is garbage (I read it when it came out). The type of articles I like the most are those…

Your point applies to much more than long-form articles. We spend so much time subscribing and scrolling through information sources just to be "aware" things exist (it's the worst for news). If we'd really want to read something great or understand a topic deeply, everyone has huge read-it-later lists and bookmark collections.

But filtering and discovering new things is somehow much more rewarding than reading or understanding itself.

Re: Longform.org is shutting down its article recommendations service

#36

Post by phgn » Thu, Jan 06, 2022, 9:48 AM UTC

drx wrote: post #6

That's a shame. Fortunately, it looks like the archive will stay up: https://twitter.com/aaronlammer/status/1478749874053169154

For me, the archive seems by far the most valuable part of longform.org. I'd guess no-one has even approximately read most of the best articles they recommended in the past.

This is now the chance to get to them and re-read the best ones, without being distracted by new things.

Re: Longform.org is shutting down its article recommendations service

#37

Post by dredmorbius » Thu, Jan 06, 2022, 9:51 AM UTC

probably_wrong wrote: post #32

I am sorry to see them go, but more for the principle than for the site itself. I gave up on the site when I realized that I was spending more time scrolling for something interesting than actually reading articles. Even now, out of their top 10 "best of 2021" I find only 3 of those even remotely interesting, and IMHO one of them is garbage (I read it when it came out). The type of articles I like the most are those…

I have to say my own impression is similar.

I'm a fan of high-quality, significant, long-form, content.

I'm ... not really seeing that here. A few good pieces, but that's from their own self-admitted "best of".

If not necessarily an outright failure, then a mismatch of goals and attainment.

And as has been frequently noted on HN (occasionally by myself), length itself is not a marke of quality in writing. Requisite complexity is, that is, the structure of the piece itself should be suited and fitted to what it is it addresses. Longform wouldn't be the only place the false equivalence that "long" == "good" seems asserted. The New Yorker, which likewise has both a long legacy and recent history of producing good high-quality long pieces, also seems to fall far too frequently into the trap of mistaking length for quality.

I appreciate the effort and intent. I'm sorry to see the attempt failed. But execution was in fact lacking.

Re: Longform.org is shutting down its article recommendations service

#38

Post by phgn » Thu, Jan 06, 2022, 9:53 AM UTC

brazzy wrote: post #16

jeppesen-io wrote: post #8

I feel bad, I tried it but if I'm honest I couldn't focus on long form Not a good thing

TBH, a lot of "long form" articles are just shitty. Randomly interrupting a current event story with unrelated biographic episodes of the protagonists does not magically result in a more valuable, high-brow form of reporting.

I think some of the value of long articles is simply that they are long -- if you can get into them, they get you away from news feeds long enough so that the effect feels calming. Regardless of actual content.

Re: Longform.org is shutting down its article recommendations service

#39

Post by dredmorbius » Thu, Jan 06, 2022, 9:57 AM UTC

md_ wrote: post #29

reincarnate0x14 wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I love the scheme of repeatedly building up towards the answer to one of the central questions of the subject and then yanking the rug, digressing into some backstory of a minor personage or historic aside to pad out another page. And by love I mean absolutely despise.

What really gets me is how, in narrative fiction, the author knows what's going to happen in the plot at the very beginning, but they only gradually reveal it to the reader throughout the story.

If the entire value of an item of writing hinges on the revelation of a single fact, then the writing is flawed.

State the fact and be done with it.

(As I've just done here.)

If the writing has value, the fact will be immaterial to that value, and the true reward for the reader is in the telling of the story, the narrative developed, the introduction and interrelation of facts, concepts, characters, strengths, and flaws. And yes, telling those, where they are material to the story, takes time, but also is its own constant reward.

We have classics of literature and mythology. The stories are well known. The boy loses the girl, then wins her back. The dog dies. We all die. A tree grows in Brooklyn. George slays the dragon. Cinderella wins the prince. The Wicked Witch is overcome. Jesus dies, then returns. Buddha is enlightened.

Those facts don't matter to the value of the story. It's the details built up along the way, the morals and principles exposed, which do.

Build your stories around those, then pull away all that truly does not matter.

(This sounds simple. It's much harder than it seems.)

Re: Longform.org is shutting down its article recommendations service

#40

Post by PotatoNinja » Thu, Jan 06, 2022, 10:00 AM UTC

I've been using longform.org with the Send To Kindle Chrome extension. That way, I've always had a library of articles on my Kindle. Sad to see them go.