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Why do we still permit tobacco use? (2015)

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

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Re: Why do we still permit tobacco use? (2015)

#31

Post by throwawaygh »

hungryforcodes wrote: post #22
throwawaygh wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why is this even a question? Again, the article explains: "I can vividly recall in the first couple of weeks into my first clinical rotation watching an elderly man with end-stage emphysema literally suffocate and die on my shift wearing just a venti mask. It was a clarion moment for me as a young health care professional even though I never smoked."

Elderly man -- had possibly lived a good life. Why is this even a question. People can do what they want. In every other western country outside of the US, you might be able to argue that since Medicare is provided free by the state that it is an unfair load on the system -- but in the US -- you absolutely don't have that argument available in your pocket. Sorry. So -- to each his own.

I didn't even express agreement with the quote. OP asked a question. The answer to that question is given right in the VERY short article.

Re: Why do we still permit tobacco use? (2015)

#32

Post by cossatot »

hungryforcodes wrote: post #22
throwawaygh wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why is this even a question? Again, the article explains: "I can vividly recall in the first couple of weeks into my first clinical rotation watching an elderly man with end-stage emphysema literally suffocate and die on my shift wearing just a venti mask. It was a clarion moment for me as a young health care professional even though I never smoked."

Elderly man -- had possibly lived a good life. Why is this even a question. People can do what they want. In every other western country outside of the US, you might be able to argue that since Medicare is provided free by the state that it is an unfair load on the system -- but in the US -- you absolutely don't have that argument available in your pocket. Sorry. So -- to each his own.

The article is from the Canadian Journal of Respiratory Therapy and is about Canada.

Re: Why do we still permit tobacco use? (2015)

#34

Post by retrac »

In 1994, the Canadian federal government reduced its tobacco excise tax. Quite a lot too, nearly 50%. It wasn't a libertarian whim, or the desperate power grab of a cigar-lover. The black market was rampant. About 30% nationally approaching nearly 100% in some communities. (Clever: you can measure the rate by collecting butts from public ashtrays and the street.)

Prohibition doesn't eliminate demand. And in the Canadian context, with a border with the USA and with some indigenous communities being exempt from federal excise taxes and who use tobacco in religious ceremonies, effectively prohibiting the black market trade seems daunting, both pragmatically and politically. It also raises the old question: are the harms of the substance or the harms of prohibition worse?

Re: Why do we still permit tobacco use? (2015)

#35

Post by novosel »

throwawaygh wrote: post #10
novosel wrote: post #3

Quoted post unavailable.

Because we need oxygen to live. A less absurd question might be "why do we still permit gambling and alcohol", which the article addresses: > One of the main arguments for the continuance of tobacco sales is that the government should not dictate what vices the public engages in. This is a valid point. Alcohol and gambling are restricted but not prohibited; fast food is unrestricted (although New York City [USA] atte…

Fair point,

it was stated in an ironic mode, but, I think, help's bringing a wider context in play.

Re: Why do we still permit tobacco use? (2015)

#36

Post by tptacek »

woodruffw wrote: post #20
tedajax wrote: post #4

Smoking is bad but prohibition is worse. Being subjected to the carcercal system is worse for your health than smoking.

Being subjected to the carceral system is indeed bad for your health, but there's a gap here: you haven't explained why banning smoking means we have to put people in prison. I would have thought to just fine them, or tax purchases out of existence. No need for shackles.

The enforcement of that fining system will put thousands of people in prison, since fining use necessarily means prohibiting sale (or, fining retail sale necessarily prohibits wholesale, etc). This is a thing people already go to prison for, simply because the licensing fees annoy people.

Re: Why do we still permit tobacco use? (2015)

#38

Post by jdavis703 »

WastingMyTime89 wrote: post #26
tedajax wrote: post #4

Smoking is bad but prohibition is worse. Being subjected to the carcercal system is worse for your health than smoking.

The issue was prohibition in the USA was that it indiscriminately criminalised selling, transporting, owning and consuming alcohol. With tobacco, modern countries could simply ban selling while allowing consumption. The risk is that the black market would flourish. I think the current policy of constantly hiking the price is a compromise: it restricts availability while limiting the development of parallel sell chann…

That hasn’t worked well with cannabis. If the price is too high, that allows the black market to thrive. There are three dispensaries on my street. Yet there’s still street-level drug dealers selling illegal cannabis.

Re: Why do we still permit tobacco use? (2015)

#39

Post by twofornone »

woodruffw wrote: post #27
ReptileMan wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have to die of something eventually. We are not immortal.

I think many people would like to see their loved ones live longer, healthier lives and die with relative comfort. That doesn't require being denial about their mortality.

Most people do not get the fortune of dying peacefully in their sleep, regardless of their health habits.
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