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Sen. Joe Manchin says no to $2T bill: ‘I can’t vote for it’

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Re: Sen. Joe Manchin says no to $2T bill: ‘I can’t vote for it’

#31

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Yes, I do, so that the rich states don’t fall into the trap of thinking everybody is like them and as rich as them and thinks as they do and loves every new idea they have. Checks and balances.

What is a "rich" state? Is this a conservative dog whistle?

That's not a check or a balance, separation of powers is.

Re: Sen. Joe Manchin says no to $2T bill: ‘I can’t vote for it’

#32
post #6

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The US is a republic, not a democracy. And for good reasons. Otherwise, politicians will try to one-up each other with promises of freebies. It's easy to win elections when you promise free healthcare, free education, free childcare,... The average person will vote in their immediate interest and not worry about the big picture. The big picture: nothing is free.

> The US is a republic, not a democracy. This pops up every now and then and is complete bullshit. A republic is a system of government with a parliament and an elected head of state. Being a republic and being a democracy are completely unrelated. There are republics that are oligarchies, dictatorships, or democracies. Similarly, there are monarchies that are oligarchies, dictatorships, or democracies. You can discu…

Republic simply means there is no monarch. Dictatorships are kinda interesting, but if they are elected, it still falls on side of republic.

Re: Sen. Joe Manchin says no to $2T bill: ‘I can’t vote for it’

#33
post #29

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I wasn't talking about that. The House is. Duh. The problem is still that the Senate gives nearly empty, conservative states outsized power they don't deserve. It was a Colonial concern that no longer exists to the degree it did during the founding.

There is easy solutions for this. 1. Break up the union. Each state goes it own way or forms a block between neighbours. 2. Get rid of states in general. Same federal laws and rule over all of the USA.

Reorgs rarely solve anything and administratively impossible. 50 currencies. Too many cities to roll-up to DC.

Re: Sen. Joe Manchin says no to $2T bill: ‘I can’t vote for it’

#34
post #9

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The point of having two chambers is that they are selected in a different way, otherwise you might as well have only one. The senate is a way for smaller states to not be in a permanent structural minority and have no say on the direction of the country. Many countries have a similar system. Also even the house is not a proportional system. I know some people like proportional systems but let’s keep in mind they ofte…

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So much condescension in a single line, quite a performance. Also a good demonstration of how representative democracy does its job in protecting those people from those who consider themselves morally superior over them.

Re: Sen. Joe Manchin says no to $2T bill: ‘I can’t vote for it’

#35

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I dont remember seeing the word 'free' in the posted article anywhere related to the paying for this bill. In fact, it clearly states the cost will come from taxes on the wealthy ... whom Manchin represents.

those damn wealthy... and their... running the country into the ground... darn Manchin can't get his hands out of the coffers long enough to see the people suffering outside!!!

Indeed, Im under the impression WV is one of the most heavily subsidized by the fed.

Re: Sen. Joe Manchin says no to $2T bill: ‘I can’t vote for it’

#36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

Yes, I do, so that the rich states don’t fall into the trap of thinking everybody is like them and as rich as them and thinks as they do and loves every new idea they have. Checks and balances.

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Re: Sen. Joe Manchin says no to $2T bill: ‘I can’t vote for it’

#37
post #6
post #3

Democratic senators represent 40 million more people than Republican senators and their agenda can't be passed. The last time Republican senators represented more than half the population was 1996. Rural, low population states have far too much power in the present system. This is not sustainable. I know Manchin is nominally a Democrat but it's not him that is blocking the legislation it is him and all 50 Republican…

The US is a republic, not a democracy. And for good reasons. Otherwise, politicians will try to one-up each other with promises of freebies. It's easy to win elections when you promise free healthcare, free education, free childcare,... The average person will vote in their immediate interest and not worry about the big picture. The big picture: nothing is free.

The US is a democratic republic. Canada, the UK and a number of others are parliamentary democracy.

They are ALL democracies, and I'm unaware of a single country on the planet that is a pure democracy. All are representative in some way.

This bizarre "not a democracy" (for the oldest ongoing democracy) is not based in reality at all, but someone read it somewhere and just mindlessly repeats it.

> It's easy to win elections when you promise free healthcare, free education, free childcare,... The average person will vote in their immediate interest and not worry about the big picture

In reality the "average person" votes against their own interest -- both short and long term -- at virtually every turn.

I feel like I've been trolled.

Re: Sen. Joe Manchin says no to $2T bill: ‘I can’t vote for it’

#38
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The US is a republic, not a democracy. This pops up every now and then and is complete bullshit. A republic is a system of government with a parliament and an elected head of state. Being a republic and being a democracy are completely unrelated. There are republics that are oligarchies, dictatorships, or democracies. Similarly, there are monarchies that are oligarchies, dictatorships, or democracies. You can discu…

Republic simply means there is no monarch. Dictatorships are kinda interesting, but if they are elected, it still falls on side of republic.

Russia and China are examples of that (republics that are also dictatorships).

Re: Sen. Joe Manchin says no to $2T bill: ‘I can’t vote for it’

#39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly right. "Rural, low population states have far too much power in the present system. This is not sustainable" is wrong in that, pure democracy leads to pure majority rule, which causes stability issues in no time, history tells a lot of those stories.

Come on, there are plenty of healthy democracies in which all votes have the same weight, it’s trivial to demonstrate how wrong you are. “One person, one vote” might have been radical 300 years ago, but it really should not be controversial in the 21st century.

Tax and Law and Republic are the three to hold the society in order with enough individual rights for the long run.

The only way I can agree on pure majority vote is that you need to qualify for it, e.g. only those who contributed to the society(taxpayers,social works, housewives raising kids,etc) can vote(disabled can vote no matter what). Voting right should be earned.

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