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How do you fix a stroad?

strongtowns.org

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Re: How do you fix a stroad?

#31

Post by jimmaswell »

jhgb wrote: post #24
jimmaswell wrote: post #3

I find the premise questionable that stroads are bad. Give a stroad good sidewalks, crosswalks with signs that light up when you hit a button, and a bike path and everybody is well-served. That or just let car people (majority) have these areas that are good for cars and let the anti car people have their crowded little streets with no parking elsewhere.

> and a bike path Why do you want to kill so many cyclists?

I said bike path, not bike lane. A small paved path on the other side of the crosswalk.

Re: How do you fix a stroad?

#32

Post by [deleted] »

derefr wrote: post #7
jimmaswell wrote: post #3

I find the premise questionable that stroads are bad. Give a stroad good sidewalks, crosswalks with signs that light up when you hit a button, and a bike path and everybody is well-served. That or just let car people (majority) have these areas that are good for cars and let the anti car people have their crowded little streets with no parking elsewhere.

> areas that are good for cars You're talking about a road. Stroads are not good for cars. Because stroads have crosswalks, and people's driveways opening directly onto them, and many other things, traffic flow and "attentional efficiency" are both far worse than what you'd get from a real separated road with onramps/offramps. Roads are great. Streets are great. Good city planning involves plenty of both. Just like y…

[deleted]

Re: How do you fix a stroad?

#33

Post by peregren »

lelandbatey wrote: post #2

I love that this highlights an oft-missed truth about Urbanism and shifting our urban landscape: this is going to take a long time. It's going to take many decades, and it's going to require waiting for individual human beings to literally die before we get to start making the changes we want to make. I mean, unless we can get someone really excited about this into federal office in which case it _might_ be possible…

I used to agree that these things take a long time, but since the pandemic my local council in Ireland has acted very quickly to build excellent bike infrastructure and curtail car access to village spaces [1]. Many roads got changed to one-way, to make way for segregated bike lanes. Pre-pandemic, there was dallying for years over building this stuff, but now its there, and the world hasn't imploded for motorists, and local businesses and residents are 99% very happy.

Of course when local government doesn't have the will it won't happen, but if they do, it can happen very quickly.

[1] https://www.dlrcoco.ie/en/civic-amenities-urban-design/dlr-c...

Re: How do you fix a stroad?

#34

Post by ocdtrekkie »

As a fun note, I immediately recognized the location of this stroad pictured. I live relatively close to it. There's been a lot of new development there recently. They just redeveloped a large chunk of the area including launching a major Costco and an Amazon Fresh.

I would honestly say it's a pretty healthy travel thoroughfare. It gets backed up during rush hour, but even interstates do here, so that's not unusual.

Re: How do you fix a stroad?

#35

Post by jimmaswell »

joe_the_user wrote: post #22

Overall, it seems simpler to say that malls, not stroads are the problem. Malls will never be pedestrian friendly. Mall will never be aesthetically pleasant. Roads going by malls are usually stroads and might be made somewhat better. But that's such a trivial question compared to the pox that is mall urban organization that I really don't care.

A big, climate controlled, pedestrian-only space packed full of different kinds of shops isn't pedestrian-friendly? Give me a break. On the subjective side I think a lot of them look pretty nice.

Re: How do you fix a stroad?

#36

Post by rdtwo »

jimmaswell wrote: post #35
joe_the_user wrote: post #22

Overall, it seems simpler to say that malls, not stroads are the problem. Malls will never be pedestrian friendly. Mall will never be aesthetically pleasant. Roads going by malls are usually stroads and might be made somewhat better. But that's such a trivial question compared to the pox that is mall urban organization that I really don't care.

A big, climate controlled, pedestrian-only space packed full of different kinds of shops isn't pedestrian-friendly? Give me a break. On the subjective side I think a lot of them look pretty nice.

American malls are islands. Europes malls tend to be hearts of networks

Re: How do you fix a stroad?

#37

Post by NumberWangMan »

jhgb wrote: post #24
jimmaswell wrote: post #3

I find the premise questionable that stroads are bad. Give a stroad good sidewalks, crosswalks with signs that light up when you hit a button, and a bike path and everybody is well-served. That or just let car people (majority) have these areas that are good for cars and let the anti car people have their crowded little streets with no parking elsewhere.

> and a bike path Why do you want to kill so many cyclists?

Though I suspect you're being tongue-in-cheek, I don't think this sort of question is conducive to productive discussion or debate. It follows the pattern: "I think your idea X will result in negative consequence Y. So now I accuse you of wanting Y". Once you know about it, you'll see it everywhere, and also notice how it tends to shut down any chance of finding common ground or changing someone's mind.

A more charitable way is something like: "I think X will result in Y, which I doubt is something any of us want. Have you considered that potential consequence?"

Re: How do you fix a stroad?

#38

Post by throw0101a »

jimmaswell wrote: post #19
throw0101a wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except streets and roads are designed to solve different problems: > Streets: The function of a street is to serve as a platform for building wealth. On a street, we're attempting to grow the complex ecosystem that produces community wealth. In these environments, people (outside of their automobiles) are the indicator species of success. Successful streets are environments where humans, and human interaction, flouri…

I've seen the video, it just didn't resonate much. I drive those areas often enough without issue. I've walked through them too. They feel like an acceptable compromise for the most part but they could do with protected bike lanes and flashing crossings like I mentioned.

You're telling me that a stroad where, along a 1km/1mi stretch of mostly strip malls, of which >70% of the surface is parking spaces, is comparable to a street such as:

* https://www.google.com/maps/place/Queen+St+W+%26+Tecumseth+S...

That cycling and walking on a highway-like path is comparable, at all, to a pre-WW2 street?

Have you ever tried living life without a car—without even being driven by someone like you parents when you were younger—in an area where stroads are the basic building block of transportation?

Re: How do you fix a stroad?

#39

Post by jrumbut »

joe_the_user wrote: post #28
lelandbatey wrote: post #2

I love that this highlights an oft-missed truth about Urbanism and shifting our urban landscape: this is going to take a long time. It's going to take many decades, and it's going to require waiting for individual human beings to literally die before we get to start making the changes we want to make. I mean, unless we can get someone really excited about this into federal office in which case it _might_ be possible…

this is going to take a long time. ' The present world changes fast, when it changes. When someones says "this will take decades", I usually interpret that as "this isn't happening, there's nothing making it happen, only people talking".

The discussion is the first 20 years of the 25 year process.

Re: How do you fix a stroad?

#40

Post by micromacrofoot »

jimmaswell wrote: post #3

I find the premise questionable that stroads are bad. Give a stroad good sidewalks, crosswalks with signs that light up when you hit a button, and a bike path and everybody is well-served. That or just let car people (majority) have these areas that are good for cars and let the anti car people have their crowded little streets with no parking elsewhere.

stroads are miserable to walk through… usually large distances across large parking lots, too windy in the cold, too hot in the sun, bleak and depressing to look at, have many cars traveling at higher speeds, noise, air pollution… they’re not just ill-equipped, but unpleasant to people in the nature of how they’re shaped
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