What I told the students of Princeton • Hacker News Board

Re: What I told the students of Princeton

#31

Post by the_optimist » Fri, Dec 10, 2021, 1:16 PM UTC

krageon wrote: post #30

the_optimist wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your statement on 'hate' is self-referential on self-identity, akin to labeling others divisive. It's not simply 'there to see,' like a brick or a tree. You're conjuring it. As such, I directly disagree with you.

The stance that anything that cannot be touched exists only as a reflection of the observer is philosophically interesting, but not much more than that. It directly stifles communication with almost everyone else and it stops you from seeing harmful behaviour besides. There is, to my mind, very little point to it except as a (fun) thought exercise.

I assert less than that, merely that your confidence is significantly overstated, your opinion overfit. The bold, factual, and wrong “there to see” hyperbole renders discourse irrelevant.

Re: What I told the students of Princeton

#32

Post by flyingfences » Fri, Dec 10, 2021, 2:09 PM UTC

cafard wrote: post #25

tzs wrote: post #18

As far as sports go, maybe it is time to stop having men's sports and women's sports and instead have different leagues in a sport be based on performance or measurable characteristics directly related to the sport. You finish near the top a lot in your league, you get bumped up to the next up higher performing league. You finish near the bottom a lot in your league, you get moved to the next lower performing league.…

We can also get rid of weight classes in boxing, wrestling, and MMA.

That's pretty much the opposite of what GP is advocating. The idea is to divide all sports into effective "weight classes" instead of segregating them by gender.

Re: What I told the students of Princeton

#33

Post by vb6sp6 » Fri, Dec 10, 2021, 3:47 PM UTC

loquor wrote: post #2

The chilling effect is real. It's disheartening that we are asked to play along with unsubstantiated dogma on topics as fundamental as gender. Has anyone here managed to express opinions like Shrier's in a casual manner without having the reputation take a hit?

Her book is the number one result on amazon when you search "transgender"

She's speaking to an audience of Princeton students and grads

You are reading about it on hacker news

Chilling effect? People would pay really good money for this type of exposure.

Re: What I told the students of Princeton

#34

Post by hellojesus » Fri, Dec 10, 2021, 8:30 PM UTC

tzs wrote: post #18

As far as sports go, maybe it is time to stop having men's sports and women's sports and instead have different leagues in a sport be based on performance or measurable characteristics directly related to the sport. You finish near the top a lot in your league, you get bumped up to the next up higher performing league. You finish near the bottom a lot in your league, you get moved to the next lower performing league.…

We already have those leagues now... they're just called rec leagues.

One issue I could think of is women playing a sport which has considerable groinal contact, such as basketball. I'm sure there is some amount of women players who would not be comfortable with men essentially grinding up on them in the paint. For those without experience, if you are offensively in the paint a typical strategy is to shove your butt out into the defenders groin to create space.

By making all sports coed you invite the potential for more sexual harassment, especially at the lower levels of competition due to the close skill levels between minimally athletic men and moderately athletic women.

Re: What I told the students of Princeton

#35

Post by Gunax » Sat, Dec 11, 2021, 7:03 PM UTC

If what comes out of your mouth is (eg.) a disapproval of same-sex or inter-racial relationships, maybe you should be afraid to speak.

And it's likely that Shirier would agree--I doubt she would be critical of eg. a publisher refusing to publish ku klux klan diatribes.

The problem is that this isn't a black-and-white issue. Most people agree with cancelling someone at a certain point--we just dont all agree where to draw the line.

Re: What I told the students of Princeton

#36

Post by loquor » Sun, Dec 12, 2021, 3:31 PM UTC

vb6sp6 wrote: post #33

loquor wrote: post #2

The chilling effect is real. It's disheartening that we are asked to play along with unsubstantiated dogma on topics as fundamental as gender. Has anyone here managed to express opinions like Shrier's in a casual manner without having the reputation take a hit?

Her book is the number one result on amazon when you search "transgender" She's speaking to an audience of Princeton students and grads You are reading about it on hacker news Chilling effect? People would pay really good money for this type of exposure.

Its survival bias. She stuck her head out, didn't budge, and navigated the criticism smartly. But many other faculty members and writers have been forcibly ushered out of their positions or made to recant their non-woke opinions.