Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

DAO votes to join Blender Development Fund as Patron member

blender.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

31–40 of 46 posts

Re: DAO votes to join Blender Development Fund as Patron member

#31

Post by [deleted] »

dkersten wrote: post #22
mangecoeur wrote: post #6

Always glad to see funds go to a great and well managed Open source project like Blender! That said, looking up what the hell is 'Decentraland' and how it works is to dive into a dystopian nightmare. Cutesy illustrations tell you: 'Decentraland: it's like a second rate RPG, except instead of in game currency you have to use your actual cash to participate in a tech-bro pyramid scheme where each coin has the climate i…

I looked into Decentraland about a month ago (because someone I know was going on about it) and to me it looked like what I remember Cybertown [1] was circa 2000, except with NFT's. I wasn't very impressed, even visually, it looked quite dated. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CyberTown

[deleted]

Re: DAO votes to join Blender Development Fund as Patron member

#32

Post by ranuzz »

aeolian wrote: post #23
ranuzz wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have spent some time learning about DAOs and this is what I understood. Please correct me if there is a mistake. Coined as Decentralized autonomous organization, they are decentralized applications whose main function is to handle fund disbursement. They work more or less as any other treasury but in a more transparent and automated way. What further separates them from the traditional treasury is that they are ess…

As a member of a DAO, this is almost-right. A DAO isn't necessarily an "application"; it's more of a concept, an idea. There are a bunch of tools/applications that facilitate the operation of a DAO. I wrote a blog post about this: https://blog.juicebox.money/dao-tooling-101/ In the case of the JuiceboxDAO, I contributed funds (ETH) to the DAO treasury (bank account), and in return I got $JBX (a token that lives on Et…

>> it's more of a concept, an idea.

Thanks for stating it this way, makes a lot more sense now. Your example and blog post cleared a lot of doubts !

Re: DAO votes to join Blender Development Fund as Patron member

#33

Post by pen2l »

wlesieutre wrote: post #3

For context, Patron member is at €120K+ per year, and this puts them as the 7th one. Other patron members are GPU manufacturers (Nvidia/AMD), game engines (Epic/Unity), Facebook (pre-Meta, but presumably for VR reasons), and AWS (no idea, publicity move to promote AWS use by game studios?). Decentraland fits in there alongside Meta.

AWS is easy to understand, it provides cloud-rendering: https://www.amazonaws.cn/en/solutions/cloud-rendering-farm/

Thinkbox/deadline is pretty mature and as I understand it is actually already being used by a handful of big shops.

Re: DAO votes to join Blender Development Fund as Patron member

#34

Post by ajross »

tpxl wrote: post #27
ajross wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also instead of a legal entity with the ability to petition the government for redress of grievances, it's just a bunch of data emitted by some smart contract code. This is going to turn out to be important the first time a DAO gets significantly scammed. Someone's going to take the money and run, or otherwise violate the "contract" that the DAO thought it was "enforcing", and... there won't be anything to do. There…

> This is going to turn out to be important the first time a DAO gets significantly scammed Badger DAO got scammed for 120 million USD last week and I doubt they were the first.

To be clear, that attack (also the The DAO event that caused the ethereum fork) was a hack. It was a bug in the contract that got exploited. And that's a risk too.

But even if a DAO does everything right, technically, they're still subject to the problem of having to trust entities in the real world (e.g. "whoever on the Blender foundation gave them the address to pay") to behave the way they promise (e.g. "actually hand them an address under the control of the Blender Foundation"). It's trivially easy in this world to just cheat.

And in the real world, with real people on both sides of the transaction, that's addressed in the courts. And it works, and fraud as a proportion of our economy is quite small. But that protection doesn't extend to anonymous smart contracts.

Re: DAO votes to join Blender Development Fund as Patron member

#35

Post by addandsubtract »

corobo wrote: post #30
aeolian wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a member of a DAO, this is almost-right. A DAO isn't necessarily an "application"; it's more of a concept, an idea. There are a bunch of tools/applications that facilitate the operation of a DAO. I wrote a blog post about this: https://blog.juicebox.money/dao-tooling-101/ In the case of the JuiceboxDAO, I contributed funds (ETH) to the DAO treasury (bank account), and in return I got $JBX (a token that lives on Et…

I think I'm very close to beginning to understand this whole thing haha thanks for the post Oddly enough I've already been wanting to set something like this up -- my equivalent is running a regular business but with a pretty intense profit share scheme Honestly it sounds perfect except these gas fees. Can someone clarify am I right in thinking it's prohibitively expensive to create any of these tokens/shares/votes/w…

If you set it up on Ethereum, then yes, it probably will be too expensive in your case. However, there are several other chains where you could set up a DAO with close to zero gas fees. For example Polygon or Fantom, among others. The major hurdle atm is "bridging" assets onto these newer chains. Most exchanges currently only support the big players, but as these grow and mature, adoption and UX/DX should improve as well.

Re: DAO votes to join Blender Development Fund as Patron member

#36

Post by nightpool »

aeolian wrote: post #25
marmada wrote: post #19

Can someone w/ more crypto experience explain how a DAO actualizes its decisions? For example: Here, there was a vote. Now what? Will Blender setup a wallet that can accept ETH? Will the DAO then vote on a transaction that sends money from the DAO to Blender's ETH wallet??

I'm not sure about Decentraland specifically, but typically there will be a subset of the DAO members who actually control the DAO treasury in a "multisig wallet". Say they have 10 signatories, they might have a requirement that 8 of the 10 signatories approve a transaction to either send ETH to Blender, or do the necessary swaps to give Blender USD. The signatories have committed to execute the will of the DAO. Voti…

That's pretty funny, that's basically identical to how standard corporations work, except instead of "signatories" you have "corporate officers" and instead of "off chain voting" you have (very thoroughly-regulated!) "shareholder proxy statements".

Re: DAO votes to join Blender Development Fund as Patron member

#37

Post by dcolkitt »

ajross wrote: post #16
SuoDuanDao wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Decentralised autonomous organization. Picture a corporation, but instead of a board and CEO the shareholders vote on what to do directly. I'm sure someone more knowledgeable than I could come up with a better analogy.

Also instead of a legal entity with the ability to petition the government for redress of grievances, it's just a bunch of data emitted by some smart contract code. This is going to turn out to be important the first time a DAO gets significantly scammed. Someone's going to take the money and run, or otherwise violate the "contract" that the DAO thought it was "enforcing", and... there won't be anything to do. There…

This is a misunderstanding. Many DAOs have off-chain legal entities attached.

In American law, corporations are people. American Courts will give a very high leeway to respecting whatever corporate bylaws dictate. Including being governed by code.

It’s very easy to register a Delaware LLC which states that it’s board decisions are whatever output a smart contract spits out.

Re: DAO votes to join Blender Development Fund as Patron member

#38

Post by vvpan »

mangecoeur wrote: post #6

Always glad to see funds go to a great and well managed Open source project like Blender! That said, looking up what the hell is 'Decentraland' and how it works is to dive into a dystopian nightmare. Cutesy illustrations tell you: 'Decentraland: it's like a second rate RPG, except instead of in game currency you have to use your actual cash to participate in a tech-bro pyramid scheme where each coin has the climate i…

You will only see a dystopian nightmare when that's what you are looking to see.

* A DAO is a lot of people who are looking to create common good via small donations and common participation. This was the goal and ideology of Ethereum from the moment it was conceived. And here the DAO is helping out a beautiful open source project that has benefited many people, so Ethereum is delivering on its ideological promise quiet literally and objectively. Very dystopian, right.

* What Decentraland is is beyond the point. If you don't like Second Life and all that (I have zero interest personally) it has nothing to do with your argument. People enjoy it and here they are supporting to keep it free (as in freedom).

* I do not see how "use your actual cash" is a negative argument here. Having all platforms be absolutely free made the user the product and lead to an actual dystopian nightmare which is the current control of all user data by like two corporations. New methods of governance, monetization and user-owned data are what's needed to prevent a dystopian nightmare. Decentraland is making progress on all of those. All of those, btw, are part of the ideological vision of Ethereum that I mentioned above, so once again - it is doing the intended job.

* Climate impact is an old argument, we can argue about it for hours and not get anywhere. But Ethereum is switching off PoW within the next few months and many projects have already moved to L2 which does not rely on PoW consensus for every transactions.

Again, you see only the things you are looking for. People coordinating major funding for a large open source project while having democratic say over the platform they are using to you seems like an accidental byproduct but it was the primary goal all these years.

Re: DAO votes to join Blender Development Fund as Patron member

#39

Post by vvpan »

nightpool wrote: post #36
aeolian wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure about Decentraland specifically, but typically there will be a subset of the DAO members who actually control the DAO treasury in a "multisig wallet". Say they have 10 signatories, they might have a requirement that 8 of the 10 signatories approve a transaction to either send ETH to Blender, or do the necessary swaps to give Blender USD. The signatories have committed to execute the will of the DAO. Voti…

That's pretty funny, that's basically identical to how standard corporations work, except instead of "signatories" you have "corporate officers" and instead of "off chain voting" you have (very thoroughly-regulated!) "shareholder proxy statements".

Well that's the point actually. It is a lot like shareholder/board of directors voting. Except that the DAO requires virtually no bureaucracy to get up and running. So if, say, you and your local community wanted to start an organization to fund some common-goods project you can do it in a few minutes, provided you have people who are onboard with the vision and have a little money to put in. After that all voting and movement of funds is transparent. The code replaces corporate structure. There are unsolved problems like vote-buying and all that, but then other mechanisms would kick like "rage-quitting" (a term used officially by some DAO systems) by which DAOs can dissolve and funds be withdrawn by contributors. Plenty of research projects on the table, but benefits are already being reaped, as in this Blender case.

Re: DAO votes to join Blender Development Fund as Patron member

#40

Post by corobo »

addandsubtract wrote: post #35
corobo wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think I'm very close to beginning to understand this whole thing haha thanks for the post Oddly enough I've already been wanting to set something like this up -- my equivalent is running a regular business but with a pretty intense profit share scheme Honestly it sounds perfect except these gas fees. Can someone clarify am I right in thinking it's prohibitively expensive to create any of these tokens/shares/votes/w…

If you set it up on Ethereum, then yes, it probably will be too expensive in your case. However, there are several other chains where you could set up a DAO with close to zero gas fees. For example Polygon or Fantom, among others. The major hurdle atm is "bridging" assets onto these newer chains. Most exchanges currently only support the big players, but as these grow and mature, adoption and UX/DX should improve as…

Feels a bit too Wild West (and expensive as fuck) for me right now, I'll just use a database and later regular old shares I think haha

Maybe I'll pop back when it's web3.1

Post reply on HN