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They Died from Covid. Then the Online Attacks Started

nytimes.com

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Re: They Died from Covid. Then the Online Attacks Started

#31

Post by loudtieblahblah »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #28
RankingMember wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And, to be fair, it's flagrant "thumbing their nose at you as they're being rolled into intensive care", top-level ignorance. The HCA subreddit made me uneasy, but the rules and goal do seem to be at least semi-compassionate in a "save the flock being led off the hill by showing them the dead shepherd" kind of way.

Right. If you give society both middle fingers while headed off a cliff at speed as the crowd shouts to you to stop, not much sympathy when you’ve run out of runway. We use your experience to encourage better outcomes for those still with us who can make better choices.

not having sympathy for people is a far cry from collectively laughing at their death and trolling their family members.

there's a difference between shrugging off people you find to be moronic or destructive and being an aggressor and mean spirited.

and the common defense of things like https://old.reddit.com/r/HermanCainAward/ is to equate the two, and it's intentionally dishonest

Re: They Died from Covid. Then the Online Attacks Started

#32

Post by [deleted] »

loudtieblahblah wrote: post #31
toomuchtodo wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right. If you give society both middle fingers while headed off a cliff at speed as the crowd shouts to you to stop, not much sympathy when you’ve run out of runway. We use your experience to encourage better outcomes for those still with us who can make better choices.

not having sympathy for people is a far cry from collectively laughing at their death and trolling their family members. there's a difference between shrugging off people you find to be moronic or destructive and being an aggressor and mean spirited. and the common defense of things like https://old.reddit.com/r/HermanCainAward/ is to equate the two, and it's intentionally dishonest

[deleted]

Re: They Died from Covid. Then the Online Attacks Started

#33

Post by disambiguation »

jordanpg wrote: post #16

Putting aside any special reverence we might have for the dead, I guess the abstract question is: is there any social value to publicly shaming those who uncritically call into question settled scientific claims, putting others at risk? I would say there is some value. Our society will not survive if it is socially acceptable to do this. COVID is exhibit A. Climate science is exhibit B. Settled scientific matters, li…

Shame is like a gun, it's only as good as the hands that its in.

And even then winds up doing more harm than good.

Best case scenario, you shame someone into compliance and then there's a good chance they harbor negative feelings over how they were treated.

Re: They Died from Covid. Then the Online Attacks Started

#34

Post by Reuzel »

krageon wrote: post #21
Reuzel wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, it is time we see this evil for what it is. You are the marxist troll here, unable to view criticism. But following my observation, that would be like expecting an alt-right neonazi to see the errors of their views. You don't get the benefit of "good intentions" and "moral high-ground" anymore. Stop claiming it. Left up to you it will degenerate into evil like this. You can shove your dog whistle up your loose as…

> you are the Marxist troll here I pointed out ways in which your post could be misconstrued by your audience, and from this you have extrapolated some surprising and far-reaching facts about my political views. You are wrong, so much so I must admit it made me laugh.

You are not my audience. I consider you a lost cause after you calling me a neonazi troll. It is time the general public sees this evil inhumane activism without being obscured by anti-racism or anti-fascism.

When the general public sees you equating trolling a memorial page (a digital mourning service) as:

> anything remotely incriminating

And others write about "maybe public shaming helps" to stop the spread of fake news, then that should make them pause and question how this movement and its targets have devolved.

Your audience is left-progressive centrists. Just by standing still, they have moved closer to the far-right. You could find ways to improve that. For instance, by vastly distancing yourself from this evil. But you are not able to see it as more than something remotely incriminating, defending it, and then charge the centrists with racism.

Re: They Died from Covid. Then the Online Attacks Started

#35

Post by mindslight »

giantg2 wrote: post #24
jordanpg wrote: post #16

Putting aside any special reverence we might have for the dead, I guess the abstract question is: is there any social value to publicly shaming those who uncritically call into question settled scientific claims, putting others at risk? I would say there is some value. Our society will not survive if it is socially acceptable to do this. COVID is exhibit A. Climate science is exhibit B. Settled scientific matters, li…

I guess that depends on who gets to decide value and in what manner. Settled scientific facts are not the same as politics and policy. They can be useful in determining policy, but are not a default policy. It also depends on how those facts get linked together. You need to question the n-order impacts to devise good policy. "If there is a belief among some that settled scientific questions are a matter of non-expert…

> Settled scientific facts are not the same as politics and policy

Except that we are talking about scientific facts here, and not policy. If the political movement accepted that vaccines are seemingly safe and effective, but still rejected getting them based on some other critique, that would be a political topic. Or if say the "anti-mask" movement were solely against mask mandates, while encouraging everyone to be personally responsible and wear a mask, that would be political (I myself would have been in this camp if more people had worn respirators). But rather than making a defensible political point in the wider context of scientific reality, these movements have backstopped their positions with blatantly false scientific-seeming disinformation. And so the overall situation really is a matter of scientific facts having been politicized, and not science being used to dictate policy.

Re: They Died from Covid. Then the Online Attacks Started

#36

Post by kmos17 »

brightball wrote: post #9

One of the most disturbing things I’ve watched during the last 2 years is the number of people: 1. Celebrating the deaths of people who didn’t get vaccinated because they were pro. 2. Mocking the deaths of anyone who died from Covid under the assumption that it’s being politically over-labeled. There’s a sign in a funeral home in my hometown with a quote that leaves me very disturbed about our future. “Show me the ma…

When you have one side arguing they don’t want to get vaccinated because only old or unhealthy people are at risk, where is their empathy? Where is their care for not just the dead but the living and vulnerable? All this because medicine has been politicized by hucksters and opportunists.

The public shaming of figures like Herman Cain who contributed to the anti-vaccination discourse that is leading to thousands of preventable deaths is arguably justifiable when the person who died contributed via public statements to the spread of deadly misinformation.

Re: They Died from Covid. Then the Online Attacks Started

#37

Post by ipaddr »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #17
loudtieblahblah wrote: post #4

this is one of the many reason the left has left me. things like /r/covidatemyface and /r/HermanCainAward/ - full of so-called progressives and their endless pseudo-empathy, not seeing this as opportunity to increase understanding about this situation and more as an tribalistic moment to "score points" and have a good laugh at the ignorance and death of others and the pain their families have to endure in the wake of…

You can be progressive and not have any compassion left for ignorance. Don’t confuse policy positions with being a doormat for those who equate beliefs and opinions with facts (which is troubling frequent in a post truth world). My apologies to Meta, “data wins arguments.” All of this loss (r/HCA) was mostly avoidable (based on all available information) with a free vaccine , and the subreddit raised over $56k [1] fo…

Progressive doesn't mean compassion. It did once for a period but society has progressed into something else. Progressive now means welding power over those views you wish to change for the greater good. Progressive became regressive.

Re: They Died from Covid. Then the Online Attacks Started

#38

Post by notreallyserio »

brightball wrote: post #9

One of the most disturbing things I’ve watched during the last 2 years is the number of people: 1. Celebrating the deaths of people who didn’t get vaccinated because they were pro. 2. Mocking the deaths of anyone who died from Covid under the assumption that it’s being politically over-labeled. There’s a sign in a funeral home in my hometown with a quote that leaves me very disturbed about our future. “Show me the ma…

I don't "celebrate" their deaths, but when someone uses a position of authority to endanger others by discouraging basic measures like getting vaccines and staying 6+ feet apart, or by claiming the disease is a librul plot, and then dies of the disease, I can't help but feel some schadenfreude.

I still feel bad for their families. Not only did they lose a loved one, they learned the relative value their loved one placed on their lives. That is tragic.

Re: They Died from Covid. Then the Online Attacks Started

#40

Post by loudtieblahblah »

RankingMember wrote: post #26
toomuchtodo wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can be progressive and not have any compassion left for ignorance. Don’t confuse policy positions with being a doormat for those who equate beliefs and opinions with facts (which is troubling frequent in a post truth world). My apologies to Meta, “data wins arguments.” All of this loss (r/HCA) was mostly avoidable (based on all available information) with a free vaccine , and the subreddit raised over $56k [1] fo…

And, to be fair, it's flagrant "thumbing their nose at you as they're being rolled into intensive care", top-level ignorance. The HCA subreddit made me uneasy, but the rules and goal do seem to be at least semi-compassionate in a "save the flock being led off the hill by showing them the dead shepherd" kind of way.

do you really think a sub reddit that talks down to people is going to win any hearts and minds?

really?

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