What form is the aluminum in these stockpiles? Bars? Giant cubes? Boullion? I have no idea how unprocessed aluminum is kept around.
A $5B hoard of aluminum
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Re: A $5B hoard of aluminum
#32Earlier quoted context omitted.
> and gotten an oxide layer Aluminium has an oxide layer the second it comes into contact with air.
It keeps increasing (exponentially slower, thus with a finite total depth) even without any other chemical. Anyway, out on the world there are many chemicals that can make it deeper, can peel it from the metal so another layer forms, or can mix with it and make it less insulating. I would be surprised if loses are as low as 1% as people point on this thread, but shouldn't be very large either.
Oxidation is technically a fire, albeit very slow
Re: A $5B hoard of aluminum
#33What form is the aluminum in these stockpiles? Bars? Giant cubes? Boullion? I have no idea how unprocessed aluminum is kept around.
Beer and soda cans, duh. Just dig in a random landfill and you'll find the stockpiles right there.
Re: A $5B hoard of aluminum
#34If people are upset by so called "dumping" - can't they just let China charge more than they would have for this aluminum?
Aluminum has well known fixed costs in smelters, it's one of those products they use as an example where it may make economic sense to keep a smelter going (even if incurring losses / ) because the cost of shutdown.
Ie, a potline may take up to a week just to "turn off" and a huge amount of effort - think a month of full time work + weeks of troubleshooting as annode effect issues, alumina concentration and other bits settle down. Don't you basically have to recondition (fully, replace all anodes, dig out the crust) the pots, and even then you may be taking a bit hit on pot life with the cool down / reheat cycle?
I know the US has "anti dumping" rules regarding sugar as well - which I've been told contributes to a fair bit of corn syrup use.
I'm not that hung-up on the US blocking imports of cheap materials (if that's what the US wants to do), but how does the US get some third party country to grab this quantity of metal? Ie, China could sell to other countries that are not as concerned about dumping. For example, why would a poor country without a local smelter even care about "dumping" - it would seem the cheap prices would be a subsidy in effect.
Re: A $5B hoard of aluminum
#35The industry around the world is running out of aluminium. Aluminium mills are closing all around the globe, except for China. Why? No magnesium. And China don't let out its magnesium.
Hmm. Magnesium is anything but scarce - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnesium#Occurrence OTOH, it's not used in huge quantities (vs. oil, coal, iron, etc.) - so it seem plausible that China could kinda corner the market. At a reasonable cost (for them). Especially if they're the ~only country bothering to run a strategy...
They already have the market cornered. They produce over 90% of the global supply.
Re: A $5B hoard of aluminum
#36Earlier quoted context omitted.
And according to https://www.goodreads.com/en/book/show/40538538 , it always has been. In the referenced book, the author details how the aluminum cartel was dismantled under the threat of WWII needs because of their failure to promptly address the needs of the United States.
My recollection was that the Washington Monument has an aluminum cap on account of the material's status as a precious material at the time. What I found at the below link is a story of "fake it until you make it" pushing of materials science and self-promotion worthy of an HN read. https://www.tms.org/pubs/journals/jom/9511/binczewski-9511.h...
Yeah, until the Bayer process was discovered to pull aluminum out of bauxite in the late 1880s, it was worth more than gold. Tutankhamen had an aluminum ankh very close to his body for that reason.
And even for a long time after that, before we had a critical mass of aluminum for recycling, it was still extremely expensive because of how capital and energy intensive the Bayer process is. For that fifty or so years it held a similar niche as aluminum in practical materials science.
Re: A $5B hoard of aluminum
#37The industry around the world is running out of aluminium. Aluminium mills are closing all around the globe, except for China. Why? No magnesium. And China don't let out its magnesium.
Hmm. Magnesium is anything but scarce - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnesium#Occurrence OTOH, it's not used in huge quantities (vs. oil, coal, iron, etc.) - so it seem plausible that China could kinda corner the market. At a reasonable cost (for them). Especially if they're the ~only country bothering to run a strategy...
Energy is scarce though. Only Chinese smelters have dolomite based production, which is much cheaper than bruteforce electrolysis.
Re: A $5B hoard of aluminum
#38the aluminium industry consumed 6% of all global coal-fired electricity in 2019 – more coal-fired electricity than is generated in the whole of Europe – and is actually becoming more reliant on coal at a time when the world is becoming less reliant on coal. https://ember-climate.org/commentary/2020/10/06/aluminium/ The aluminium sector has a pivotal role to play here. Accounting for 1.1 billion tonnes of CO2 emission…
"at a time when the world is becoming less reliant on coal"
No, we aren't becoming less reliant on coal. We should be but we aren't. Look at [1]. We actually consume more coal, oil and gas each and every year.
Re: A $5B hoard of aluminum
#39If people are upset by so called "dumping" - can't they just let China charge more than they would have for this aluminum? Aluminum has well known fixed costs in smelters, it's one of those products they use as an example where it may make economic sense to keep a smelter going (even if incurring losses / ) because the cost of shutdown. Ie, a potline may take up to a week just to "turn off" and a huge amount of effor…
Now I wonder how this is related...
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3784270/Chinese-bil...
https://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/a-chinese-billionaire-...
Re: A $5B hoard of aluminum
#40the aluminium industry consumed 6% of all global coal-fired electricity in 2019 – more coal-fired electricity than is generated in the whole of Europe – and is actually becoming more reliant on coal at a time when the world is becoming less reliant on coal. https://ember-climate.org/commentary/2020/10/06/aluminium/ The aluminium sector has a pivotal role to play here. Accounting for 1.1 billion tonnes of CO2 emission…
"at a time when the world is becoming less reliant on coal" No, we aren't becoming less reliant on coal. We should be but we aren't. Look at [1]. We actually consume more coal, oil and gas each and every year. [1] https://ourworldindata.org/energy-mix
Good link, but to be fair it looks like it's leveled off since 2011. Oil & gas are continuing to grow, as are solar & wind.