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The Token Disconnect

stephendiehl.com

31–40 of 45 posts

Re: The Token Disconnect

#31
post #6

This is the guy who has been writing the same things about crypto for the past 2 years. He makes a lot of extremely arrogant assumptions then extrapolates from them to weave a narrative that confirms the biases of his readership. I'm not sure why he's constantly re-iterating his opinions with new blog posts... he hasn't seemed to update his knowledge at all since 2019, and his opinions haven't changed. He seemingly h…

So true. In my opinion Stephen makes the mistake of mixing the technology (Blockchains) with the Ponzi schemes that some people use them for. To give an analogy, the internet is used for crime, but it would be wrong to say it was invented for that purpose and it should be abandoned. Blockchains are the only known way of having a digital cash system without a Central authority. Period. A small percentage of people are…

[deleted]

Re: The Token Disconnect

#32
post #4

> These days I read a lot of cross-disciplinary commentary on the crypto asset bubble, and what strikes me as particularly strange is the sheer level of disconnect between people’s lived experience of this mania. Rather than do an investigation or analysis of some of the broader trends and successful applications of crypto, this article proceeds to make sweeping accusations devoid of earnest research. Here's what I w…

What would you say is the best example of a concrete, real-world use case for one of those tokens that would refute the article's claim that blockchains are “a solution in search of a problem”? I ask because a lot of these things (exchanging one USD-pegged token for another, borrowing a token for another token) seem like problems that wouldn't exist to begin with, without blockchains.

Tokens are a novel capital formation mechanism. Because tokens are programmable and blockchain native, they are qualitatively superior to other forms of "fractionalized ownership", such as a stock certificate, for example.

A token can be used as an authentication mechanic for a piece of software. It can be used as a voting mechanic in a DAO, for example. You might argue that voting is the purpose of stock certificates, but in practice, it's quite impractical to participate in corporate politics. You generally have to attend an annual stockholder's meeting and put you vote forward there, and even then, you only get to vote on the Board of Directors (and this is rarely used in practice).

In DAOs, it's far more similar to open source software development. People create an improvement proposal and pitch the idea in the forums and chat rooms for the project, and try to drum up enough support, and then it will go to a vote, and depending on how the DAO is set up, either you do an initial temperature check vote followed by a final implementation by the core team, or someone actually submits a PR to merge into the DAO source code and users vote on that code directly.

The transparency of the treasury mechanics is also far more superior to anything else in the corporate world. With a DAO, I know at all times, precisely how much is in the treasury, how they've spent their funds in the past, what mechanics and rules guard that treasury, etc. It's all inspectable and visible on-chain. That makes a qualitative difference in the amount of trust you can generate among a group of dispersed strangers from potentially all corners of the earth, and it allows them to proceed in a productive manner in such a way that was not possible except for largely through groups of close-knit people working within a single jurisdiction (for the most part).

Open source does work this way (which has also had a monetization problem), but pair open source ideals with open source money and open source treasury management, and you get something that is powerful in the same way that Linux is powerful for computing. Except it unlocks this type of coordination for things beyond software development. It encompasses everything, from art, entertainment, charity, politics, business, etc. It's a sea change in the ability to coordinate human beings and capital across distances and to incentivize people to participate in a more sustainable way.

But stable coins of course, also solve a problem in and of themselves, because they make dollar-denominated token mechanics possible. If you want to program a smart contract in such a way that the terms and conditions and programmed rules depend on dollars as a base pair, you need stable coins. Programmable money is powerful for all the reasons above (it can be held in a smart contract, governed by a DAO, controlled by a multisig or by DAO votes or by certain boolean conditions being met) and more. It's also borderless, it's as easy to use in Argentina as it is in Kentucky.

And slippage and liquidity are very real problems that do exist in traditional markets, such as stock markets. We've seen the traditional system mechanics breakdown, like what happened with GameStop earlier this year, when trading was halted due to liquidity issues. At any rate, powerful stuff here, it's here to stay, and it will change everything.

Re: The Token Disconnect

#33
post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What would you say is the best example of a concrete, real-world use case for one of those tokens that would refute the article's claim that blockchains are “a solution in search of a problem”? I ask because a lot of these things (exchanging one USD-pegged token for another, borrowing a token for another token) seem like problems that wouldn't exist to begin with, without blockchains.

Exactly, each of those examples is only interesting or useful to someone who already believes crypto has value. It's totally circular.

Your argument is circular. Lending, borrowing, human coordination, liquidity management, censorship resistance, art patronage, royalties, permissionless non-custodial 24/7 trading, community development, a global pool of start up capital that rivals silicon valley and will eventually eclipse it, transparent treasury management across jurisdictions, user ownership, etc.

There's no need to believe crypto has value. It has value. It trades 24/7 with a market cap approaching $3 trillion. The market isn't wrong about what has value, the market determines what has value. Deny that all you want, but it's not going anywhere, it will only evolve and grow from here. We've barely explored the design space for what is possible.

Re: The Token Disconnect

#34
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Helium ( https://www.helium.com/); a decentralized mobile internet network operator which enables anyone to host radios and earn tokens for usage, without compromising the connection security of endpoint users. Filecoin ( https://filecoin.io/); an incentive layer on top of IPFS to create a decentralized long-term object storage system. Tradelens ( https://www.tradelens.com/); in development, AP Moller Maersk's enterp…

>The point is not to make a better system, in every way; the point is making a functional system that is decentralized, so it can operate in a trustless, geo-distributed, multi-party way. Let me preface this by saying that I think it's deranged how ad-driven and surveillance-driven modern centralized tech has become. Why is what you are saying good for me and others? I can see some value in a currency that isn't spec…

Crypto provides a global pool of capital, and smart contracts provide a universal interface for establishing programmable rules for how capital is managed.

This is a sea change akin to the discovery of double-entry bookkeeping or the common stock corporation. You may reside in one jurisdiction your entire life, but the whole point of the internet is to connect humanity. You have no doubt interacted with hundreds or thousands of people in your lifetime online that reside in other states or countries than yourself.

If you want to coordinate with people across jurisdictions to create a venture or a charity or a political movement or a software start up or a video game project or create an artistic franchise, traditionally you need a pre-established relationship to do so. Because one person ultimately has to be in charge of finances if capital is involved. This creates a touchy situation. What happens if your partner in China or Argentina or Zimbabwe wants to custody the funds? You need to not only trust the person to be the treasurer and not run off with the money, but also the local banking laws and rules guarding those bank accounts. This makes coordination across distances difficult and unpredictable and fraught with risk.

Contrast that with placing those funds in a multisig, where you and your 3 teammates (from 3 different countries) all must sign-off on every expenditure from that multisig smart contract. Maybe you're ok with 3 out of 4 signing off on expenditures, that's fully customizable, since it's all code. You can also effortlessly swap between different currency pairs, whether that be Ether, or Bitcoin, or USDC, or Japanese Yen, and reinvest the treasury into yield generating strategies (since there is demand for on-chain loans and there does exist permissionless 24/7 on-chain money markets).

Now, don't lose sight of the big picture, because there's 7-8 billion human beings on this planet, and currently it is nearly impossible to coordinate, raise, and manage capital in a meaningful way for the vast majority of these humans. This is unlocking the capital availability of Silicon Valley for the whole world.

Re: The Token Disconnect

#35
post #12
post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What would you say is the best example of a concrete, real-world use case for one of those tokens that would refute the article's claim that blockchains are “a solution in search of a problem”? I ask because a lot of these things (exchanging one USD-pegged token for another, borrowing a token for another token) seem like problems that wouldn't exist to begin with, without blockchains.

Helium ( https://www.helium.com/); a decentralized mobile internet network operator which enables anyone to host radios and earn tokens for usage, without compromising the connection security of endpoint users. Filecoin ( https://filecoin.io/); an incentive layer on top of IPFS to create a decentralized long-term object storage system. Tradelens ( https://www.tradelens.com/); in development, AP Moller Maersk's enterp…

>centralized systems

It bothers me when people talk about (de)centralization because I think it's more ambiguous than appears at first and the definition needs to be examined more closely.

Things "on the blockchain" may be physically decentralized, and may not be controlled by one entity, but aren't they usually logically more centralized?

Consider real estate, which sometimes people fantasize about moving it to a blockchain registry. It probably seems natural to many people especially if they live in a country where that's how it works now, only the national government keeps the land registry.

But in the US, there isn't a national registry that determines who owns what. It's an oddity kind of like the absence of a proper national ID card or gun registry.

If we switched to a system that utilized crypto, it would be definitely marketed as "decentralized", but it would be a profound move towards centralization in a different sense. If the code had a flaw then everybody would be screwed, whereas currently we have this inefficient system with title insurance and so on, but if something goes wrong it's a local issue.

I can't be a true believer when I feel like the language has been corrupted and there isn't terminology to express things correctly so maybe people can't even think the thoughts they need to.

Re: The Token Disconnect

#36
post #3

> These days I read a lot of cross-disciplinary commentary on the crypto asset bubble, and what strikes me as particularly strange is the sheer level of disconnect between people’s lived experience of this mania. Rather than do an investigation or analysis of some of the broader trends and successful applications of crypto, this article proceeds to make sweeping accusations devoid of earnest research. Here's what I w…

How many people start their day and think: oh man, I have such a hard problem of "creating an on-chain marketplace with a sub-1000 line smart contract", I wish there were a product to solve this for me? If you want to show that blockchains are applicable to real world, you don't want to talk about implementation, but about UX. For example, you are a business and need money. Your choices are banks, VCs, and one of tho…

Here's the benefits:

Uncensorable. Permissionless. Democratic. 100% Availability (Ethereum has 100% uptime for 7 years). No $GME rug pulls like what we saw earlier this year. No Great Financial Crisis due to opaque liabilities (everything is traceable, auditable, open source, solvent, collateralized). Non-custodial. Yield generation. Programmable capital management.

It provides superior capital access and coordination mechanisms for not just first world humans, who also see a benefit, but for all of internet-connected humanity. It provides access to a $2.4 trillion and rapidly growing economy.

If you are a business and you need money in crypto and you don't live in a hostile jurisdiction like North Korea, Iran, or the United States, you can raise money on-chain. You can create a token with any emissions schedule, staking mechanics, profit sharing mechanisms, on-chain royalties, or whatever you can imagine as a programmer. And even if you're not a programmer, you can lean on tools that help to do that.

Re: The Token Disconnect

#37
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Helium ( https://www.helium.com/); a decentralized mobile internet network operator which enables anyone to host radios and earn tokens for usage, without compromising the connection security of endpoint users. Filecoin ( https://filecoin.io/); an incentive layer on top of IPFS to create a decentralized long-term object storage system. Tradelens ( https://www.tradelens.com/); in development, AP Moller Maersk's enterp…

Email is decentralized. The internet is decentralized. This problem was already solved much more efficiently.

How many people do you know that run their own email servers or host their own blogs? Ah, yes, Web2 led to monopolies because the only practical forms of monetization were ads and subscriptions, and now 99% of internet traffic routes through FAANG servers.

Re: The Token Disconnect

#38
post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How many people start their day and think: oh man, I have such a hard problem of "creating an on-chain marketplace with a sub-1000 line smart contract", I wish there were a product to solve this for me? If you want to show that blockchains are applicable to real world, you don't want to talk about implementation, but about UX. For example, you are a business and need money. Your choices are banks, VCs, and one of tho…

Here's the benefits: Uncensorable. Permissionless. Democratic. 100% Availability (Ethereum has 100% uptime for 7 years). No $GME rug pulls like what we saw earlier this year. No Great Financial Crisis due to opaque liabilities (everything is traceable, auditable, open source, solvent, collateralized). Non-custodial. Yield generation. Programmable capital management. It provides superior capital access and coordinatio…

> No $GME rug pulls like what we saw earlier this year.

Not true. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethereum#The_DAO_event

Just like $GME, we have a handful of well-connected actors overriding the rules that typically govern the system, in response to a valid but unusual outcome that they don't like personally.

Re: The Token Disconnect

#40
There is a market for crypto and it is potentially large - here is a list:

   * Money laundering (create a fake NFT and “sell” it to yourself to clean your money).
   * Illegal Activities (no more money trail for your drug trades!)
   * Billionaries Transfering Money outside of the bank system (no more pesky gift taxes!)
   * Pump and Dump Schemes (securities without regulation!)
   * Bribing Politicians (again, no money trail)
   * …
Here also a list of legal things you can do with it that you can’t with a centralized system:
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