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The Tinkerbell Griftopia

stephendiehl.com

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Re: The Tinkerbell Griftopia

#31

Post by thatguy0900 »

NikolaeVarius wrote: post #27
danielvf wrote: post #21

I work in the crypto industry right now - my job is to keep bad guys from stealing XXX millions of dollars. I've also worked on a team that has done the tech side of several record breaking NFT's sales. And I've sold my own NFTS for fun, and strangers have bought them (wat!). I'm not a "believer". Crypto is indeed full of idiots - and scammers - and crazy people who will say anything to see the token they hold go up…

Well, I saved a bunch of that art and can view it any time.

Typical right clicker mentality /s

Re: The Tinkerbell Griftopia

#32

Post by shrimp_emoji »

NikolaeVarius wrote: post #27
danielvf wrote: post #21

I work in the crypto industry right now - my job is to keep bad guys from stealing XXX millions of dollars. I've also worked on a team that has done the tech side of several record breaking NFT's sales. And I've sold my own NFTS for fun, and strangers have bought them (wat!). I'm not a "believer". Crypto is indeed full of idiots - and scammers - and crazy people who will say anything to see the token they hold go up…

Well, I saved a bunch of that art and can view it any time.

NFTs are like a combat mech the size of the Solar System.

Someone can use it to have a really ironclad DRM implementation, guarding the art you saved and to make sure only its approved owner can view it (mimicking the tyranny of physical scarcity of meatspace for cyberspace goods).

The reason you saved it and can view it is that nobody's doing that yet. And because there are way easier and cheaper ways to implement DRM than Solar System-sized mechs, nobody probably ever will use NFTs for that. : p

Re: The Tinkerbell Griftopia

#33

Post by AnIdiotOnTheNet »

casi18 wrote: post #17
AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the signatures and the economic security of that signature taking place is valuable Except, it isn't. What is the point in having a certificate of ownership of a resource so un-scare that it is practically free? We have achieved post-scarcity of information, and people are desperately trying to cram scarcity-based economics back into it because that's all our society knows how to deal with. We should instead be wor…

People need to be paid to do the work, so they can eat and pay rent. We dont actually live in a post scarcity star trek world. So we find a way that people can be paid yet the information and content can remain free to everyone. It seems like lots of people like this. For some reason some people really really hate that other people are willing to pay to make content freely available to them. The people buying NFTs ar…

> People need to be paid to do the work, so they can eat and pay rent.

Yes, this is the part about reshaping society I was talking about. Artists do contribute value to the world and need a way to be supported, but the way we support them should not be to burn the gift of post-scarcity.

> We dont actually live in a post scarcity star trek world.

When it comes to information we really, really do. I have every single game ever made for every console generation from 1978 through 2002. This cost me next to nothing, because we live in the information age.

> So we find a way that people can be paid yet the information and content can remain free to everyone

We already have several mechanisms for that. I don't see how NFTs bring anything new to the table other than providing speculation-based scams to flourish, which doesn't really benefit the artists in any way.

> Sure thats a social/cultural status game with a side of speculation, but in turn we have art that is permeating culture rapidly.

I wasn't aware that there was a problem with this. Indeed, the non-scarcity of information has allowed art and culture to proliferate at ludicrous speed. We've seen someone's fanfiction become a big budget film series (with some IP changes), someone's basement-developed game became so big a company bought him out for billions of dollars, and a korean TV series become a smash hit in the west.

I'm open to having my opinion changed, but I don't see any problems things like NFTs actually solve better than any existing system other than being great for scams.

Re: The Tinkerbell Griftopia

#34

Post by phillipcarter »

casi18 wrote: post #4

> "Information doesn't want to be free anymore" “Information Wants To Be Free. Information also wants to be expensive....That tension will not go away” - Stuart Brand Think about the whole quote and NFTs will make more sense to you. NFT != DRM go wild, right click and torrent. i'll send you my nft images myself if you want them. the signatures and the economic security of that signature taking place is valuable. ther…

> I don’t have the time to try to convince you, sorry.

I'm willing to bet you do :)

Re: The Tinkerbell Griftopia

#35

Post by NikolaeVarius »

danielvf wrote: post #30
NikolaeVarius wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, I saved a bunch of that art and can view it any time.

Open source funding hits art. Anyone can view it and get the benefit of doing so, the artist got paid to create, somebody gets bragging rights. Everybody wins.

So you admit all NFTs are just bragging rights, That is FUCKING STUPID.

Re: The Tinkerbell Griftopia

#36

Post by shrimp_emoji »

NikolaeVarius wrote: post #35
danielvf wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Open source funding hits art. Anyone can view it and get the benefit of doing so, the artist got paid to create, somebody gets bragging rights. Everybody wins.

So you admit all NFTs are just bragging rights, That is FUCKING STUPID.

Rationalization is the press secretary of... crypto fads. (I think that's how that saying goes.)

Re: The Tinkerbell Griftopia

#37

Post by jimbob45 »

shrimp_emoji wrote: post #32
NikolaeVarius wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, I saved a bunch of that art and can view it any time.

NFTs are like a combat mech the size of the Solar System. Someone can use it to have a really ironclad DRM implementation, guarding the art you saved and to make sure only its approved owner can view it (mimicking the tyranny of physical scarcity of meatspace for cyberspace goods). The reason you saved it and can view it is that nobody's doing that yet. And because there are way easier and cheaper ways to implement D…

Why couldn't you just have a SQL DB where you store the ownership of these assets though? There's no reason to use an NFT - it's overkill.

Re: The Tinkerbell Griftopia

#38

Post by casi18 »

lostcolony wrote: post #24
casi18 wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People need to be paid to do the work, so they can eat and pay rent. We dont actually live in a post scarcity star trek world. So we find a way that people can be paid yet the information and content can remain free to everyone. It seems like lots of people like this. For some reason some people really really hate that other people are willing to pay to make content freely available to them. The people buying NFTs ar…

'people buying NFTs are footing the bill for you to have that free information' Where? All I see is people paying for works after the fact, that no one would pay for -except- buying into the idea of an NFT. Where are the NFTs being sold for desirable creative works -prior- to their creation and distribution? Show me a movie being shot, by names good enough that they could otherwise sell tickets, that will release fre…

Retroactive sales have long been the way most art (and most stuff in general) is funded. Art is made and then sold, then the artist can keep making things. Someone makes them then sells them then they can keep making more. There is also the smaller market of commissioned work, which is popular in illustration and graphic design, but not so much in fine arts as it strips agency from the artist (you are asking them to make a particular thing). Alongside that there is funding applications via arts councils and crowdfunding, the closest for that would be projects on https://mirror.xyz/

Here is a crowdfund for a musician who is releasing records on catalog: https://haleek.mirror.xyz/crowdfunds/0x8B38a9cbabC067ddEA968...

Also as he was mentioned before, here is the crowdfund for the documentary about Stuart Brand too that played with these ideas of free/expensive/public/private https://weareasgods.mirror.xyz/crowdfunds/0x69DdE2e4d81720AE...

Re: The Tinkerbell Griftopia

#39

Post by AlexandrB »

casi18 wrote: post #4

> "Information doesn't want to be free anymore" “Information Wants To Be Free. Information also wants to be expensive....That tension will not go away” - Stuart Brand Think about the whole quote and NFTs will make more sense to you. NFT != DRM go wild, right click and torrent. i'll send you my nft images myself if you want them. the signatures and the economic security of that signature taking place is valuable. ther…

> but in the words of satoshi “If you don’t believe it or don’t get it, I don’t have the time to try to convince you, sorry.”

This quote is funny, because the technology and cryptography is pretty understandable and doesn't require faith. What I have a qualm with is the economics. And the problem with the economics is that it's not value neutral. Sure, we could have a system where signed hyperlinks to jpegs have value, but do we want that? Who does such a system benefit? Are the incentives of such a system aligned with continued human prosperity?

Edit: > there is no scarcity of information in NFTs.

This is contradicted by the hype around NFT gaming and "pay to earn". Every NFT gaming proposal I've seen seems geared around using NFTs to enforce artificial scarcity of digital items.

Re: The Tinkerbell Griftopia

#40

Post by iskander »

NikolaeVarius wrote: post #27
danielvf wrote: post #21

I work in the crypto industry right now - my job is to keep bad guys from stealing XXX millions of dollars. I've also worked on a team that has done the tech side of several record breaking NFT's sales. And I've sold my own NFTS for fun, and strangers have bought them (wat!). I'm not a "believer". Crypto is indeed full of idiots - and scammers - and crazy people who will say anything to see the token they hold go up…

Well, I saved a bunch of that art and can view it any time.

That's kinda the point. The "collector" can feel like they own it -- using an idiosyncratic new definition of ownership that you don't really have to agree with but other collectors/speculators/crypto peoplke also feel is real. The artist gets paid (kinda rare for art, much less digital art), everyone else can enjoy their artistic output. System working as designed.
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