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Chess Grandmaster Kasparov on Mob Mentality and Groupthink

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Re: Chess Grandmaster Kasparov on Mob Mentality and Groupthink

#31

Post by thoughtstheseus »

glangdale wrote: post #17

> Schools are being pressured to remove books and cancel professors for spreading the “wrong” ideas. These sentiments are all too familiar to me, and to anyone who has survived life in a dictatorship. The only answer is more freedom, more speech, not less. This is a good sentiment, but it's worth noting that the overwhelming majority of pressure to "cancel" books and academics is directed at the left by the right, re…

The “left” cancels everywhere. The “right” cancels in their own community. Big difference IMO. Pros and cons to both of those approaches but that’s how I see it.

Re: Chess Grandmaster Kasparov on Mob Mentality and Groupthink

#32

Post by IncreasePosts »

kadoban wrote: post #18
fallingknife wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They got to make their case in open court and lost. That's like saying Derek Chauvin was "cancelled."

The court system is not particularly equal if you piss off a billionare. And Thiel just went and found something to sue about because he didn't like Gawker's _other_ coverage.

Gawker chose an illegally filmed sex tape of a washed up celebrity as the hill they wanted to die on, and die they did.

Did Thiel make them host the video in the first place? Did Thiel make them ignore initial injunction for them to take the video down?

Re: Chess Grandmaster Kasparov on Mob Mentality and Groupthink

#34

Post by kevinventullo »

kadoban wrote: post #12
fallingknife wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gawker was not "cancelled.". It was driven to bankruptcy by losing a massive defamation lawsuit. They brought it on themselves.

Seems a lot like it's only "cancelled" if the target is right-wing.

I think of “cancellation” as being tried and convicted in the court of public opinion; this is somewhat orthogonal to being tried and convicted in an actual court of law. An example of someone on the left being cancelled is Al Franken.

I don’t think Thiel really changed the public’s opinion of Gawker. They were always considered extremely low-brow tabloid media, and to their users I think that was sort of the appeal. They didn’t shut down due to a drop in popularity, they shut down because a lawsuit bankrupted them.

Re: Chess Grandmaster Kasparov on Mob Mentality and Groupthink

#35

Post by javajosh »

fishtoaster wrote: post #13

If you want to hear more of his view, including some solid rebuttals, I highly recommend IntelligenceSquared, a debate series that gets published as a podcast. They cover motions from culture to science to politics across the spectrum and usually get excellent, well-informed debaters on both sides. Their most recent one was "Cancel Culture is Toxic"[0] and Kasparov was arguing in favor of the motion. While I ultimate…

You felt the anti-woke side made the stronger case, but you still disagree? Can you add some more detail here?

Re: Chess Grandmaster Kasparov on Mob Mentality and Groupthink

#36

Post by dlp211 »

thoughtstheseus wrote: post #31
glangdale wrote: post #17

> Schools are being pressured to remove books and cancel professors for spreading the “wrong” ideas. These sentiments are all too familiar to me, and to anyone who has survived life in a dictatorship. The only answer is more freedom, more speech, not less. This is a good sentiment, but it's worth noting that the overwhelming majority of pressure to "cancel" books and academics is directed at the left by the right, re…

The “left” cancels everywhere. The “right” cancels in their own community. Big difference IMO. Pros and cons to both of those approaches but that’s how I see it.

People choosing to no longer listen to you because you have ideas that are currently considered reprehensible to the larger society is not being cancelled. That's called consequences for my actions. You are not entitled to consequence free speech & actions. This has never been a principle of free speech.

Also, there is a massive difference between using government entities to ban books, and a bunch of people on Twitter saying we don't like you and what you said.

Re: Chess Grandmaster Kasparov on Mob Mentality and Groupthink

#37

Post by systemvoltage »

glangdale wrote: post #17

> Schools are being pressured to remove books and cancel professors for spreading the “wrong” ideas. These sentiments are all too familiar to me, and to anyone who has survived life in a dictatorship. The only answer is more freedom, more speech, not less. This is a good sentiment, but it's worth noting that the overwhelming majority of pressure to "cancel" books and academics is directed at the left by the right, re…

You may be right about one instance, but I've never seen anything but pro-freedom of speech from the right. Leftism in colleges and academia is so rotten beyond belief.

I am down with History of Racism, naked and in all its gory details. But, let's not confuse that with how fusion of Big Tech with Big Gov to move more and more towards totalitarianism - we've seen this happen in Australia in the name of COVID. Vast majority of this is a push from Left, not the Right.

Edit: Australia passes mass surveillance laws: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28451066 . I can't reply because of limits, been too much on HN, I need to get off :-). It is indirectly linked to quanrantine and other measures Australian government is taking as a result of COVID. I would go a step further and argue that the world has become more authoritarian post-COVID in general.

Edit: Those saying this is a naive and disingenious take - my observations are pretty much consistent with censorship is mostly from the left than right. Sure you can give examples of suppression from the Right (which I would oppose), but that doesn't really change my observation. Generally speaking, it is indisputedly obvious to me. Here is an economist article that goes in much more depth than single counter examples in the responses: https://www.economist.com/leaders/2021/09/04/the-threat-from...

Re: Chess Grandmaster Kasparov on Mob Mentality and Groupthink

#38

Post by kadabra9 »

salt-thrower wrote: post #26
glangdale wrote: post #17

> Schools are being pressured to remove books and cancel professors for spreading the “wrong” ideas. These sentiments are all too familiar to me, and to anyone who has survived life in a dictatorship. The only answer is more freedom, more speech, not less. This is a good sentiment, but it's worth noting that the overwhelming majority of pressure to "cancel" books and academics is directed at the left by the right, re…

Yeah, the Right complains about cancel culture while also trying to cancel any book or curriculum that accurately describes the history of racism in America. They are well-practiced at suppressing school materials that make them uncomfortable, and they've been doing it for decades. (And no, I'm not talking about Critical Race Theory; they have been suppressing even the most basic topics around race for a long time).…

We can and should teach about the history of racism in America.

We should not however be telling children to use an “oppression matrix” to group and divide one another by identity, teaching children that if they are white they are automatically racist, or teaching historical fabrications like the 1619 project.

Re: Chess Grandmaster Kasparov on Mob Mentality and Groupthink

#39

Post by cool_dude85 »

newacct583 wrote: post #7

The first example cites what I guess is an attempted cancellation of Peter Thiel: > In his recent book “The Contrarian,” journalist Max Chafkin assigns an ideology to Mr. Thiel, then defines it as “fascist” and even tries to blame this concocted “Thielism” for the Jan. 6 Capitol riot. There is little doubt that the book would never have come to be had Mr. Thiel not supported Donald Trump in 2016. I mean, OK. I guess…

What is an "attempted cancellation"? Apparently, saying you don't like Peter Thiel's ideology in a book counts.

If I say I don't like your ideology in a hacker news reply, am I attempting to cancel newacct583?

Re: Chess Grandmaster Kasparov on Mob Mentality and Groupthink

#40

Post by rileymat2 »

thoughtstheseus wrote: post #31
glangdale wrote: post #17

> Schools are being pressured to remove books and cancel professors for spreading the “wrong” ideas. These sentiments are all too familiar to me, and to anyone who has survived life in a dictatorship. The only answer is more freedom, more speech, not less. This is a good sentiment, but it's worth noting that the overwhelming majority of pressure to "cancel" books and academics is directed at the left by the right, re…

The “left” cancels everywhere. The “right” cancels in their own community. Big difference IMO. Pros and cons to both of those approaches but that’s how I see it.

I am not sure this generalization holds up, as the Religious Right, in particular, has a history of boycotts in attempt to “cancel.”
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