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Without parental leave I might be dead

nytimes.com

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Re: Without parental leave I might be dead

#31

Post by ivan_gammel »

bko wrote: post #7

I believe parental leave should be provided, but I don't see how anyone expects employers to shoulder the burden of providing paid parental (in reality maternity) leave without an implicit bias towards hiring men (or at least paying women less). You can provide the same benefit to men and women, but let's be honest, even when available most men take only a fraction of the allowed time. I guess you can force people to…

> Saying "other countries do it" isn't really an answer. There's no clear solutions

It is an answer, because it’s been working well for decades in other countries. Right now I have a man in my team taking his parental leave and I as a manager have no problem with it at all. When hiring I just accept this risk and keep in mind possible mitigations (temporary reduction in capacity and expences or hiring substitution or redistribution of workload etc).

Re: Without parental leave I might be dead

#32

Post by bko »

speedgoose wrote: post #17
bko wrote: post #7

I believe parental leave should be provided, but I don't see how anyone expects employers to shoulder the burden of providing paid parental (in reality maternity) leave without an implicit bias towards hiring men (or at least paying women less). You can provide the same benefit to men and women, but let's be honest, even when available most men take only a fraction of the allowed time. I guess you can force people to…

> Saying "other countries do it" isn't really an answer. There's no clear solutions Your argument makes me think about this satiric article : https://www.theonion.com/no-way-to-prevent-this-says-only-na... I live in a country where it's exactly what we do, and it's fine. I took a 7 months paid parental leave as a dad recently and my company congratulated me for the birth.

Again, saying "other countries do it" isn't really an answer. That's like saying why are incomes in Mexico so much lower than the US? Just do what the US does.

In fact, Mexico has 12 weeks. And Greece has 40. I'd rather be a parent in the US than Greece or Mexico. Policies don't exist in a vacuum.

Re: Without parental leave I might be dead

#33

Post by merpnderp »

helge9210 wrote: post #2

I really can't understand how can a newborn be separated from his mother at the age of 12 weeks.

Generations of kids have grown up this way without issue. Sleeping 7/8 hours at a daycare is barely different than sleeping 7/8 hours at home. And the other hour bing broken up while being held with a bottle and a diaper change.

Re: Without parental leave I might be dead

#34

Post by nix23 »

endisneigh wrote: post #18

The problem with parental leave is the same problem with universal health care or any entitlement that isn’t utilized by the entire population at the same rate constantly. Things like roads (and even then there are many locales with crappy roads) are easy to justify. Things like parental leave and universal health care are hard because the percentage of those utilizing will be low and the disproportionate benefit wil…

Not sure why it works (parental leave and universal health care) in the rest of the world but ~cannot not work in the US. Maybe the US is so focused on being "pure capitalist" that you forgot the peoples who are part of the system?

Re: Without parental leave I might be dead

#35

Post by lifeisstillgood »

bko wrote: post #7

I believe parental leave should be provided, but I don't see how anyone expects employers to shoulder the burden of providing paid parental (in reality maternity) leave without an implicit bias towards hiring men (or at least paying women less). You can provide the same benefit to men and women, but let's be honest, even when available most men take only a fraction of the allowed time. I guess you can force people to…

The goal of "the (political-)economy" is not to increase some number relentlessly.

There is a trade off in all things. Something that is being studied now, Abused children cost society a fortune in missed productivity, court, criminal, medical and social care. What is the cost for those not abused but just where the family is stressed for decades, what missed potential, what of those that fell into crime at the margin.

We forsake the growing of our adults at a cost later on. And 90% of that growing comes from the family unit. So we forsake the family unit at our own cost.

I am not saying we should all be the Waltons, but we should aspire in that direction. Schools, urban environments. Even seemingly crazy ideas like early start support, or therapy for couples every 5 years, all start to look like "stitches in time"

There may be no clear solutions at the level of "who pays for missed working days" but then we are privileging private businesses beyond the level their role in society is I suspect.

Re: Without parental leave I might be dead

#36

Post by jimmar »

wastedhours wrote: post #11
bko wrote: post #7

I believe parental leave should be provided, but I don't see how anyone expects employers to shoulder the burden of providing paid parental (in reality maternity) leave without an implicit bias towards hiring men (or at least paying women less). You can provide the same benefit to men and women, but let's be honest, even when available most men take only a fraction of the allowed time. I guess you can force people to…

> most men take only a fraction of the allowed time I truly don't understand this, and each time I see the stats on it sit in even greater disbelief. Why would anyone turn down the opportunity to spend, for an awful lot of companies, fully paid time off work to spend time with their new family? Guessing I'm much less "career-minded" than of lot of these guys, but it makes zero sense to me that you wouldn't stretch th…

If you thought your boss would resent you for taking the full benefit and would rank your performance poorly, would you take that risk knowing that you've now got a very small person who is relying on you? You could potentially be limiting bonuses, raises, and promotions for an extra few days off. I'm not saying this is right, but I can imagine a reasonable new father feeling this pressure.

I doubt many people shorten their paid time off simply because they love work so much.

Re: Without parental leave I might be dead

#37

Post by giantg2 »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #14
bko wrote: post #7

I believe parental leave should be provided, but I don't see how anyone expects employers to shoulder the burden of providing paid parental (in reality maternity) leave without an implicit bias towards hiring men (or at least paying women less). You can provide the same benefit to men and women, but let's be honest, even when available most men take only a fraction of the allowed time. I guess you can force people to…

> Saying "other countries do it" isn't really an answer. It is an answer. For example, my cousin in England was able to spend a year breastfeeding her daughters without having to go through the arduous process of pumping. Their family is alive and well, and so is the UK.

I think they mean it's not a good premise for implementing it somewhere else. Your mention of not needing to pump and being able to spend time with the kids are stronger premises.

Re: Without parental leave I might be dead

#38

Post by endisneigh »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #24
endisneigh wrote: post #18

The problem with parental leave is the same problem with universal health care or any entitlement that isn’t utilized by the entire population at the same rate constantly. Things like roads (and even then there are many locales with crappy roads) are easy to justify. Things like parental leave and universal health care are hard because the percentage of those utilizing will be low and the disproportionate benefit wil…

> percentage of those utilizing will be low and the disproportionate benefit will inherently fall with a small percentage. The percentage of society deriving a benefit from a healthy workforce is very high. On the order of 100%.

Indirectly sure. Directly, it’s low. It has to be low for the math to work.

Re: Without parental leave I might be dead

#39

Post by nix23 »

Freak_NL wrote: post #29
nix23 wrote: post #15

>But if you are a person in America who has given birth or knows someone who has given birth, this is just a summary of a sobering and absolutely barbaric reality. It's just the US, not america, one writing for nytimes should know the difference https://www.angloinfo.com/how-to/brazil/healthcare/pregnancy... >>Brazil...In 2008, maternity leave was extended from 120 to 180 days https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worl…

'America' can theoretically mean either the US or the two continents of the Americas depending on the context, but a US newspaper will invariably use 'America' to mean 'The United States of America'. In fact most people proficient in English (second language learners included) will expect that 'America' means the USA. Surely you're not hearing this for the first time? Anyone who wishes to reference the continents ten…

>but a US newspaper will invariably use 'America' to mean 'The United States of America'.

Yeah that's just plain wrong, but speaks for the "quality" of such News Papers.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Americas

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States

Re: Without parental leave I might be dead

#40

Post by maxehmookau »

bko wrote: post #7

I believe parental leave should be provided, but I don't see how anyone expects employers to shoulder the burden of providing paid parental (in reality maternity) leave without an implicit bias towards hiring men (or at least paying women less). You can provide the same benefit to men and women, but let's be honest, even when available most men take only a fraction of the allowed time. I guess you can force people to…

> But obviously it doesn't make sense for many businesses, otherwise they would all be doing it.

Or, despite the fact that they believe so deeply that time off to produce the next generation of workers and consumers is a net loss to their bottom line, they're actually wrong and are yet to discover this.

Parental leave should be a universal benefit for workers, period. Employers should foot the bill.

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