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A cautionary tale from the streets of San Francisco

economist.com

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Re: A cautionary tale from the streets of San Francisco

#31

Post by [deleted] »

systemvoltage wrote: post #18
azinman2 wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://hsh.sfgov.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/FINAL-PIT-R... is full of a lot of good data.

The data does not support GP's assertion: 70% from San Francisco 22% from rest of California 8% from out of state Also, the data disagrees with the general sentiment of "Mental Health" issues amongst Homeless people. Only 5% were homeless because of mental health problems. Most of them, almost a quarter are homeless because they lost their job. Basically, many things in this report goes against the general opinion of…

[deleted]

Re: A cautionary tale from the streets of San Francisco

#32

Post by richiezc »

bsder wrote: post #15
mc32 wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>One possible explanation: California has become the dumping ground for the nation's homeless population. >I think the nation as a whole needs substantially more affordable housing. And San Francisco will never be a place with affordable housing. Modesto, ok. Manteca, ok. Not SF. No one ever thinks, I'm homeless, lemme go to SF and see if I can find something there. It's political. Otherwise you'd see more homeless i…

San Diego does have quite a lot of homeless, but it isn't as concentrated geographically. I'd argue that part of the issue with San Francisco is the concentration of the homeless into a small area. You don't see homeless in Atherton, for example. The wealthy enclaves in the Bay Area have zero problem with pushing the homeless out of their areas into somewhere else. In the Bay Area, there aren't that many "somewhere e…

I live in SF and while I don't spent a lot of time in Atherton, but homeless is most definitely visible even in the wealthy enclaves. Even before covid there was a small but visible homeless population in downtown Palo Alto (univ ave) and more recently there are tents on the sidewalk in Cupertino just down the street from Apple's spaceship campus. I think it must have become less acceptable to "move them along" during COVID.

Re: A cautionary tale from the streets of San Francisco

#33

Post by egberts1 »

systemvoltage wrote: post #18
azinman2 wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://hsh.sfgov.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/FINAL-PIT-R... is full of a lot of good data.

The data does not support GP's assertion: 70% from San Francisco 22% from rest of California 8% from out of state Also, the data disagrees with the general sentiment of "Mental Health" issues amongst Homeless people. Only 5% were homeless because of mental health problems. Most of them, almost a quarter are homeless because they lost their job. Basically, many things in this report goes against the general opinion of…

And makes GP assertion even less likely when counted at per-family-with-children.

47% is from within SF the rest is from elsewhere

Re: A cautionary tale from the streets of San Francisco

#34

Post by zdragnar »

tyoma wrote: post #27
hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. While I think there is an argument to be made that many of SF's/California's policies are counterproductive (e.g. treating all theft The same thing is happening in Austin. As a liberal city in Texas with relatively homeless-friendly policies, it was been well-documented that many rural areas in Texas are giving their homeless one-way bus tickets to Austin. So we're left with the dilemma that relatively liber…

The $900 felony rule keeps being brought up on HN, but the felony amount for Texas is $2500. Clearly something other than the misdemeanor/felony classification is at play.

Stealing in Texas is a significantly riskier proposition than stealing from someone in California.

Re: A cautionary tale from the streets of San Francisco

#35

Post by bsder »

systemvoltage wrote: post #18
azinman2 wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://hsh.sfgov.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/FINAL-PIT-R... is full of a lot of good data.

The data does not support GP's assertion: 70% from San Francisco 22% from rest of California 8% from out of state Also, the data disagrees with the general sentiment of "Mental Health" issues amongst Homeless people. Only 5% were homeless because of mental health problems. Most of them, almost a quarter are homeless because they lost their job. Basically, many things in this report goes against the general opinion of…

> Also, the data disagrees with the general sentiment of "Mental Health" issues amongst Homeless people. Only 5% were homeless because of mental health problems. Most of them, almost a quarter are homeless because they lost their job.

The same study also quotes (p. 28): "Seventy-four percent (74%) of respondents reported living with one or more health conditions, compared to 68% in 2017. These conditions included chronic physical illnesses, physical disabilities, chronic substance use, and severe mental health conditions. Sixty-nine percent (69%) of respondents reported their condition limited their ability to hold a job, live in stable housing, or take care of themselves, compared to 53% in 2017."

This points to the fact that regular, long-term medical care is the singular issue in the homeless. I had no idea that things were that bad. 15% have a traumatic brain injury? Holy hell.

Re: A cautionary tale from the streets of San Francisco

#36

Post by alfiedotwtf »

DoreenMichele wrote: post #3

("in San Francisco") From 2005 to 2020 the estimated number of unsheltered homeless people nearly doubled, even as homelessness declined nationwide. One possible explanation: California has become the dumping ground for the nation's homeless population. We have a nationwide shortage of housing. Both in person and online, I continue to hear homeless people plan to move someplace relatively warm and dry while stuck on…

> One possible explanation: California has become the dumping ground for the nation's homeless population.

Even more than Skid Row? To be honest that wikipedia page blows my mind https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skid_Row,_Los_Angeles

Re: A cautionary tale from the streets of San Francisco

#37

Post by [deleted] »

systemvoltage wrote: post #18
azinman2 wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://hsh.sfgov.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/FINAL-PIT-R... is full of a lot of good data.

The data does not support GP's assertion: 70% from San Francisco 22% from rest of California 8% from out of state Also, the data disagrees with the general sentiment of "Mental Health" issues amongst Homeless people. Only 5% were homeless because of mental health problems. Most of them, almost a quarter are homeless because they lost their job. Basically, many things in this report goes against the general opinion of…

[deleted]

Re: A cautionary tale from the streets of San Francisco

#38

Post by pkdpic »

edderly wrote: post #29
DoreenMichele wrote: post #3

("in San Francisco") From 2005 to 2020 the estimated number of unsheltered homeless people nearly doubled, even as homelessness declined nationwide. One possible explanation: California has become the dumping ground for the nation's homeless population. We have a nationwide shortage of housing. Both in person and online, I continue to hear homeless people plan to move someplace relatively warm and dry while stuck on…

Who came up with the hypothesis that California is the dumping ground for the nation's homeless? I'd like to know if it stands up to scrutiny. California itself has a population which is the size of a medium sized European country. It is large enough to have a sizable homeless population. If you are homeless are your chances of getting food and services better in the central valley or in SF? Also, are there significa…

I too would like to see some real numbers behind this. But I will say that I took greyhounds and amtrak in / out of CA a lot growing up in the bay area and I had numerous experiences talking to homeless folks who had been put on the train or bus by law enforcement in counties outside CA for destinations including SF and San Diego. I never experienced the inverse of homeless folks getting shipped out of CA. Always stuck with me for whatever a personal anecdote is worth.

Re: A cautionary tale from the streets of San Francisco

#39

Post by no_butterscotch »

The book's author was recently on Joe Rogan where they discussed the book and many of the policies in SF.

They discussed: de-criminalization, the "Portugal approach", progressive policies, policing, etc. Also the use of language such as "homeless camps" which envisages a camp of homeless people just trying to live. Versus the reality which when social workers and mayors (mayor of Denver) went into these camps undercover only found that everyone was a drug abuser and were being enabled to self-destruct.

Highly recommended, the author is a resident of "San Fransicko".

Re: A cautionary tale from the streets of San Francisco

#40

Post by hellbannedguy »

DoreenMichele wrote: post #3

("in San Francisco") From 2005 to 2020 the estimated number of unsheltered homeless people nearly doubled, even as homelessness declined nationwide. One possible explanation: California has become the dumping ground for the nation's homeless population. We have a nationwide shortage of housing. Both in person and online, I continue to hear homeless people plan to move someplace relatively warm and dry while stuck on…

I've given up on affordable housing in California.

I feel we need to open up vacant federal, state, and local land to free camping.

(Neusome is doing some good work. Near Candlestick Park boat launch, there is a lot set aside for RV's, and car, to those that are homeless. Could you imagine parking overnight without getting a ticket? I've know two people who were living out of their cars. They both told me it as a nightmare of cops ticketing them, and whatnot.

Sausalito has a dedicated spot for homeless, but it's no model of success. The town decided they didn't want low income, or homeless individuals mored off shore. Anchorouts have been in Richardson Bay for over a 100 years. The town let a private harbormaster decide who stays, and who's boat is going to be crushed. People had knowhere to go, so they set up tents at Dunphy Park. The Liberal citizens didn't like looking at the homeless, so the town moved them.

So basically Sausalito crested their own homeless problem?

The new spot of dirt the homeless were given came with a bunch of rules. (Homeless have a lot of problems. A huge list of rules is not the answer. I happened to read a Section 8 lease awhile ago. It was 47 pages of rules.

Cops are handing out tickets for minor infractions. The one that got me were two $500 tickets. The cops said, they won't pay them, so the fine doesn't really matter.

As usual the cop missed a lot of legal training when going to the academy. You don't pay a ticket, and it eventually turns into a bench warrant. The homeless are housed eventually in jail. Brilliant!

Local rant over.)

As I said previously we need places they can camp.

We need outhouses, and hand washing stations, and maybe a place they can cook.

Their are some people who will never get off the streets.

I'm done waiting for housing.

Oh yea, don't like stepping in crap; provide porta potties.

I have a hard time finding free restrooms in SF, and I'm not homeless.

Watch the increase in Homelessness in CA in the next few months. It's going to be ugly.

I don't feel like debating anyone. The way homeless are treated has bothered me for years.

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