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20Y study finds little evidence religiosity leads to greater life satisfaction

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Re: 20Y study finds little evidence religiosity leads to greater life satisfaction

#31

The point of religion is to solve civilization-scale game theory coordination dilemmas. "Thou Shalt Not Kill" is a mutually beneficial metastable equilibrium but is only stable to the extent that it is a universally adopted principle. A lot of modern tragedies like climate change can be tackled in this way if we can establish universal shared values that apply to all people independent of nationality, status and in p…

>"The point of religion is..." Citation please

Myerson, Roger B. 2009. "Learning from Schelling's Strategy of Conflict." Journal of Economic Literature, 47 (4): 1109-25. http://home.uchicago.edu/~rmyerson/research/stratofc.pdf

"To focus attention on one equilibrium with no higher appeal, it would be best to consult the highest possible authority. If the players share a cultural understanding that certain unpredictable processes may be used by the fundamental divine spirit of the universe to answer questions, and that this divinity cannot be bothered about the same question more than once, then a recommendation that is based on such a sacred randomization can serve as a focal coordination device that cannot be appealed to any higher arbitrator. Then the oracle's recommendations can be self-enforcing, without any further intervention by the divine spirit, provided that the recommendations to the players form an equilibrium. Thus the focal-point effect can admit a socially significant role for oracles and divination, as an effective foundation for social coordination. Indeed, when we look for effective focal factors, what can command people's attention more than the overall pattern of the whole universe? This divine pattern can serve as a focal determinant, however, only when players have a shared understanding about it can be interpreted into a selection among the set of Nash equilibria of their game.

...

"In any society, it is vital to maintain a broad general agreement about who has legitimate authority in any situation. Thus, from our earlier remarks about the focal power of the divine, we can see why societies may find it useful or even essential to call for frequent testimony that the local system of rules and authority is compatible with the divine pattern of the universe. Although coordination within a society can be improved by such belief in the universal nature of its principles of justice and legitimate authority, such universalization of local law and authority makes it harder for people in one society to recognize the different forms of justice and authority in other societies (see Myerson, 2006). That is, the same forces that help people to achieve consistent coordinated expectations in a successful society can become forces for inconsistency of expectations across societies in international relations. Indeed, in international conflicts throughout history, people on each side have regularly failed to understand the other side's perception of justice in their conflict.

...

"The focal-point effect may even offer a perspective on some ideas of theology, not about the nature of the divine, but about how societies use the divine. The focal-point effect is about environmental parameters that attract people's attention to one of many equilibria, and no aspect of our environment has a stronger claim on our attention than the divine pattern of the entire universe. Thus, coordination in a society can be strengthened when it culturally portrays local forms of law and authority as derived from universal divine principles."

Re: 20Y study finds little evidence religiosity leads to greater life satisfaction

#32

The point of religion is to solve civilization-scale game theory coordination dilemmas. "Thou Shalt Not Kill" is a mutually beneficial metastable equilibrium but is only stable to the extent that it is a universally adopted principle. A lot of modern tragedies like climate change can be tackled in this way if we can establish universal shared values that apply to all people independent of nationality, status and in p…

It's not the point of religion, it's a side-effect. While religion is a remarkably effective control/coercion tool, there are more ethical ways to establish universal shared values. "Thou Shalt Not Kill" isn't exactly inspirational coming from a book filled with god-sanctioned rape, incest, genocide, and infanticide. People didn't adopt that principle because religion told them to, they adopted it because it allowed…

    People didn't adopt that principle because religion told them to, they adopted it because it allowed them to outcompete the primitive societies that didn't.
But the divine nature of mankind makes that commandment more powerful because, one, you're killing God's creation and, two, it directly comes from God. It is not a simple "yeah, lets agree on that".

Re: 20Y study finds little evidence religiosity leads to greater life satisfaction

#33
post #12

On hearing this, Jesus said to them, "It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners." -Mark 2:17

“It is impossible to manufacture or imitate love”. – Horace Slughorn, Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince

Re: 20Y study finds little evidence religiosity leads to greater life satisfaction

#34
post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Believing you are happy and actually being happy are different things Even if that were true, the two likely wouldn't be distinguishable in any meaningful way.

Yes they would. If you ask people if they're happy they'll say yes. If you actually measure it by observing what people do they'll exhibit behavior that shows they're not actually happy. Self-delusion is a well researched topic. There are many studies.

> If you actually measure it by observing what people do they'll exhibit behavior that shows they're not actually happy.

The best part of this notion is the inverse where miserable people are doing happy people things.

Re: 20Y study finds little evidence religiosity leads to greater life satisfaction

#35
post #8

Not sure I like the easy assumption here that "panel study" = causality. Suppose I get happier. Then I go to church more. The use of some complicated-ass Granger-causality-style technique also makes me trust it less. This natural experiment looks more interesting, although it exploits just a temporary shock (variation in the length of Ramdan): https://academic.oup.com/qje/article/130/2/615/2330341?login... "We study…

Did I misread the article? They just found that it was uncorrelated for individuals who became religious during the study (that is, temporally there is no effect) but positively correlated between people, and neither of those shows causality. For the temporal result, it at least negated it being causal.

Re: 20Y study finds little evidence religiosity leads to greater life satisfaction

#37
Does anyone know what the study author actually means by religiosity? I couldn't find the "supplementary material," just a three page paper that shows some tables. Without knowing what the term means in this context it's hard to interpret the finding. Are they lumping together Christians, Buddhists, Jews, Muslims, Hindus, Mormons, and every other faith tradition present in the USA in any quantity together? I'd be willing to bet that even within one of those religions you might find wildly different results.

For example Latin Mass attending Catholics who honestly try to live the Church's teachings fully may report a different happiness level than casual Catholics who show up to Church occasionally and don't really live the life that the Church teaches them to.

It's fair to differentiate between authentically lived religion and more hollow performative religion.

Re: 20Y study finds little evidence religiosity leads to greater life satisfaction

#38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I never said it was, I'm not sure why you think I did.

Your answer of "survivorship bias" hints that you are assuming the parent's "are you happy" is a yes. Assuming for argument's sake, that is.

The post title implies religiosity != happiness, the parent implied other results might differ, my comment was a response to that possibility, for the sake of argument as you said.

Re: 20Y study finds little evidence religiosity leads to greater life satisfaction

#39

Perfect example of why I firmly believe psychology research is trash. Studied population: 4167 American adults. Conclusion: All religions are bad.

N=4167 for a longitudinal study is fantastic, actually.

For a medical study sure, for a subjective field where society and culture play a major role, even N=1e7 of individuals living in the same country wouldn't be enough to draw a conclusion on the entire human population.
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