For those who would like to avoid this situation, Mike Monteiro (@Mike_FTW) has humorously useful advice for contractors: F*ck You. Pay Me. http://vimeo.com/22053820
One of the best videos I've seen about this kind of things
Developer open-sources 200+ hr project after client refuses to pay
31–40 of 136 posts
Re: Developer open-sources 200+ hr project after client refuses to pay
#32After spending 200+ hours developing the system, not a dime has been seen or given Freelancers should always try to get at least a deposit upfront. When I was freelancing, I would get 100% upfront for projects under $500, 50% upfront for projects between $500 and $2000. For projects over $2000, I would get 25% upfront, and then set milestones with payments attached. I had a $7500 project once where the guy made the f…
Where is a good place to learn the ins and outs of contracts? Is there a comprehensive website or book that you can recommend? I am early in my career and have been on both sides of writing contracts. While I am figuring a lot of things out as I go it would be nice to sit down and wrap my head around this for good. Also, to the OP, is a few weeks really enough time? If those were 200 billable hours it seems like it's…
contracts usually aren't worth the paper they are written on.
Because even if you win in court, it doesn't mean the guy will pay you...you'll still need to chase after the money.
Re: Developer open-sources 200+ hr project after client refuses to pay
#33Does someone know under which license is this released? Could not find this anywhere. Without the license specified, the author still retains the copyright. Also, assuming this was a work for hire, not sure who the copyright belongs to (the author or the client) given the non-payment.
I wish people would include licenses even on first release, and Github could help with this. It's probably one area where Google Code has an advantage, by making the license explicit metadata.
I've generally had good results from mailing the creator when there's no license mentioned - they usually didn't bother and will add a license, and often quite flexible about which license.
Re: Developer open-sources 200+ hr project after client refuses to pay
#34After spending 200+ hours developing the system, not a dime has been seen or given Freelancers should always try to get at least a deposit upfront. When I was freelancing, I would get 100% upfront for projects under $500, 50% upfront for projects between $500 and $2000. For projects over $2000, I would get 25% upfront, and then set milestones with payments attached. I had a $7500 project once where the guy made the f…
Where is a good place to learn the ins and outs of contracts? Is there a comprehensive website or book that you can recommend? I am early in my career and have been on both sides of writing contracts. While I am figuring a lot of things out as I go it would be nice to sit down and wrap my head around this for good. Also, to the OP, is a few weeks really enough time? If those were 200 billable hours it seems like it's…
Where is a good place to learn the ins and outs of contracts? Is there a comprehensive website or book that you can recommend?
Nolo press has a variety of books that are probably relevant. Your local library likely has an assortment of them.
Re: Developer open-sources 200+ hr project after client refuses to pay
#35For those who would like to avoid this situation, Mike Monteiro (@Mike_FTW) has humorously useful advice for contractors: F*ck You. Pay Me. http://vimeo.com/22053820
Awesome video. Not safe for work, but if you're freelancing, I'd HIGHLY recommend watching it.
Re: Developer open-sources 200+ hr project after client refuses to pay
#36Publicizing your work may be a fun way to 'get back' at an nonpaying client, but is it good for business? Would the professional thing to do be to simply drop work on this client and move on, or is any publicity good publicity for the coder? This is damaging to the client. Yes, they may have deserved it, but will future clients be discouraged by this behavior? Edit : To be clear, I'm not saying the coder was in the w…
Why would the nonpaying client, or future potential clients, care what the developer does with his property? If they wanted it, they could have bought it from him. (I'm assuming that the developer didn't sign any IP assignments upfront, or is violating any NDAs or similar agreements about this code.) If I was a sculptor and a client commissioned me to create a work of art, then didn't want it, surely nobody would fau…
I disagree that the commissioned art analogy applies directly. My argument is that this was not a work of art, but a business tool, designed to provide the client with a competitive advantage. Donated art doesn't harm the commissioner, but publicizing this code CAN harm the client. A competitor can take this code and use it against the client now.
It does sound like there was no proper contract between the coder and client, which means there were probably no NDA or IP contingencies, which also explains why the coder was able to work for 200+ hours without seeing a dime. I believe the coder is in the right here. I just wonder if what he did was best for his career. It looks like most of HN agrees that it was.
Re: Developer open-sources 200+ hr project after client refuses to pay
#37After spending 200+ hours developing the system, not a dime has been seen or given Freelancers should always try to get at least a deposit upfront. When I was freelancing, I would get 100% upfront for projects under $500, 50% upfront for projects between $500 and $2000. For projects over $2000, I would get 25% upfront, and then set milestones with payments attached. I had a $7500 project once where the guy made the f…
Where is a good place to learn the ins and outs of contracts? Is there a comprehensive website or book that you can recommend? I am early in my career and have been on both sides of writing contracts. While I am figuring a lot of things out as I go it would be nice to sit down and wrap my head around this for good. Also, to the OP, is a few weeks really enough time? If those were 200 billable hours it seems like it's…
>"Where is a good place to learn the ins and outs of contracts?"
It's more an issue of customer relations than contracts. Contract specifics should be a reflection of that relationship (or lack thereof).
The way most people really learn customer relations or contracts is The School of Hard Knocks. The introductory sequence consists of SHK101 - Get it in Writing, SHK190 - Retainers, SHK225 - Applying Retainers to Final Invoice, and SHK230 - Termination Fees.
Re: Developer open-sources 200+ hr project after client refuses to pay
#38The client wouldn't pay, so he gives it to them for free anyway?
It's probably pretty much useless to them if everyone has it.
Re: Developer open-sources 200+ hr project after client refuses to pay
#39Publicizing your work may be a fun way to 'get back' at an nonpaying client, but is it good for business? Would the professional thing to do be to simply drop work on this client and move on, or is any publicity good publicity for the coder? This is damaging to the client. Yes, they may have deserved it, but will future clients be discouraged by this behavior? Edit : To be clear, I'm not saying the coder was in the w…
I doubt future clients would be discouraged by this kind of behaviour. The good clients, the kind you want, understand the value of work and the importance of being paid. They will no doubt be able to emphasize with this coder.
Re: Developer open-sources 200+ hr project after client refuses to pay
#40After spending 200+ hours developing the system, not a dime has been seen or given Freelancers should always try to get at least a deposit upfront. When I was freelancing, I would get 100% upfront for projects under $500, 50% upfront for projects between $500 and $2000. For projects over $2000, I would get 25% upfront, and then set milestones with payments attached. I had a $7500 project once where the guy made the f…
Where is a good place to learn the ins and outs of contracts? Is there a comprehensive website or book that you can recommend? I am early in my career and have been on both sides of writing contracts. While I am figuring a lot of things out as I go it would be nice to sit down and wrap my head around this for good. Also, to the OP, is a few weeks really enough time? If those were 200 billable hours it seems like it's…
I've run my own marketing firm for the last few years and have dealt with similar issues as the OP.
How you structure up front payment is always up to you. We've always had a setup fee, typically a few thousand dollars, which is due before any work starts. However, there has been one single thing which has kept our revenue flowing month after month for years: Freshbooks.com
I seriously love that site. We use it for:
1. Making estimates 2. Tracking hours worked against estimates 3. Invoicing based on hours and services rendered 4. Making sure the client indeed noticed the invoice - it says "viewed" when you send by email and they actually log in and view, so you can call bullshit when they say "I didn't get it yet!" :D 5. Automatically adding late fees to invoices. We charge a relatively nasty fee each month for a late invoice and it automatically adds it to each one. 6. Tracking payment; clients get notified via email when payment has been received, something many have commented on as a great feature.
Quickbooks and other tools are all well and good, but imho I think Freshbooks pretty much handles 90% of what you need to be successful independently :)