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Why can't we build nice neighborhoods anymore?

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Re: Why can't we build nice neighborhoods anymore?

#31
post #6

Unfortunately this plague of bland boxes has come to my neighborhood. Internal volume is more valued than neighborhood aesthetics. It seems there's a correlation between these boxes and people never leaving the house but to work.

I agree a lot of the balance has shifted this way but I don't see this as bad. When you are very wealthy you can have both but for those without that much money I don't blame anyone for choosing functionality over the aesthetics of a neighborhood. It seems rather insane to me to insist that your neighbor must increase their budget 20 or 40 percent (perhaps hundreds of thousands of dollars) just so your house can be a…

Insane perhaps from the perspective of a dweller. Some neighborhoods put more emphasis on walkability, not merely from aesthetic consideration but a desire to have walkable local businesses. Of course this is not the case if the extent that you see your neighborhood is confined to your driving commute. If this is the case then aesthetics matter little and why not live farther outside the city.

Re: Why can't we build nice neighborhoods anymore?

#32
post #16

Architectural beauty is heavily dependent on context. Ornate gothic architecture, for example, peaked in popularity in the USA around 1870 and fell out of style in the early 1900s. Interest in it was revived in the late 20th century, so the same neighborhoods that would have been considered ugly and outdated 60 years ago are now "beautiful" again. A lot of it is also about uniqueness. The author is rightly awed by pr…

On the surface what you’re saying sounds right but the only example I can think of is neo-brutalism though there aesthetics was never the point.

Re: Why can't we build nice neighborhoods anymore?

#33
post #27

I imagine the lifestyle in many planned Soviet housing blocks was more pleasant than a low income American Edit: I just mean the physical environment, not political / social / economic

Why would you imagine that?

No need for cars + greenery and public parks? Weren't there LeCorbusier style.

Re: Why can't we build nice neighborhoods anymore?

#34
post #14

I've seen some reasonably beautiful, middle class neighborhoods that were designed as recently as the early 1970's, but nothing since then. And while there are many aspects of modern interior design that I appreciate, floorplans tend to be universally terrible for anything designed since then as well. I have yet to walk into a (non-custom) home that was built since the year 2000 that I would ever want to live in.

The floor plan thing is real. A 1960s-1970s split level will have 3 bedrooms, 1.5 bathrooms, a huge living room, a good size dining room, and a kitchen, all around 1800sqft. Or, you can buy a new 2500 sqft home that has the same, plus a walk in closet in the master. Heck I've seen plenty of 3000sqft 3 bedroom homes! It is insane. Sure these new floor plans have 2 dining rooms, a breakfast nook, a living room, and a f…

I think you're giving too much credit to most people and their ability to plan for kids.

Re: Why can't we build nice neighborhoods anymore?

#35
post #14

I've seen some reasonably beautiful, middle class neighborhoods that were designed as recently as the early 1970's, but nothing since then. And while there are many aspects of modern interior design that I appreciate, floorplans tend to be universally terrible for anything designed since then as well. I have yet to walk into a (non-custom) home that was built since the year 2000 that I would ever want to live in.

The floor plan thing is real. A 1960s-1970s split level will have 3 bedrooms, 1.5 bathrooms, a huge living room, a good size dining room, and a kitchen, all around 1800sqft. Or, you can buy a new 2500 sqft home that has the same, plus a walk in closet in the master. Heck I've seen plenty of 3000sqft 3 bedroom homes! It is insane. Sure these new floor plans have 2 dining rooms, a breakfast nook, a living room, and a f…

Yup, I have a 1-story, 4-bedroom, 2.5 bath, 1800sqft home in a solidly middle class neighborhood that was built around 1970. Bathrooms and closets are small relative to modern standards, but everything is well proportioned.

We also have a decent yard that the kids actually use, and the exteriors aren't ugly.

Re: Why can't we build nice neighborhoods anymore?

#36
post #29
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So my spouse and I built a 'bland box'. We did it for simplicity and practicality sake. Few breaks to the roof line = few opportunities for my roof to leak in 40 years. Simple design with a smaller footprint = more money available for high quality materials in the walls, floors, and ceilings. Tan siding because it's cheap and easy for me to fix on my own when it gets broken. Dark brown shingles because they will fade…

I think this very much reinforces my point. 100% focus on the structure itself (especially interior) and relatively zero on the neighborhood or exterior. In a word, atomized.

“How dare people build houses for themselves to live in and not for me to look at!?”

Re: Why can't we build nice neighborhoods anymore?

#37

Buried in the article is an important point: people care a lot about interior and not much about exterior appearance. Typical cookie-cutter suburban neighborhoods are built assuming nobody walks around in them anyway. On the inside these houses are pretty deluxe, though. Also, in the US it's very difficult to build a house out of solid wood like my house from 40s. New materials might not look as nice but are less was…

I’d strongly disagree about people caring about interiors - houses are built and sold as a list of checkboxes as if they were enterprise software. They have the commensurate problems of enterprise software. Also, I’ll note that maybe only 10% of US houses are designed by an architect in the first place. Developers think in dollars, first, second, and third. They may upgrade your countertop to granite, but that’s the…

> They may upgrade your countertop to granite

For a fee, of course (which speaks to your overall point).

I recently told a builder I wanted simple white cabinets. That would be "an upgrade to a level 3 cabinet" (whatever that means) because white is popular right now. So if I want faux wood it's included. If I want that wood painted white, we have to change the entire kitchen and add $10K. I politely left the meeting at that point.

Re: Why can't we build nice neighborhoods anymore?

#38
Right. I don't mind a house that looks old from the outside but is actually well architected and maintained. However old folks had very different lifestyles, which makes their houses awkward for modern use.

In my country, the typical old house or flat has several tiny bedrooms stacked next to each other, offering little privacy. Oversized common areas are to be expected. Tiny bathrooms where baths were replaced with small showers, and claustrophobic kitchens that double down as dining rooms are common.

However, my biggest pet peeve is orientation. Apparently, suburban architects didn't know how to use a compass until a few years ago. As a result, rooms often face south, which makes working from home in the summer nearly unbearable.

Re: Why can't we build nice neighborhoods anymore?

#39
Wow, what? IMO this article is way off the mark.

Regulation is not preventing beautiful homes. There are three things probably most detracting from neighborhood beauty in America are: a lack of regulations, capitalism and materialism.

All the places he lists as beautiful, especially in Europe have some of the most regulations regarding what you can build. A community design review, where a council literally has input upon the visual design of your building is almost unheard of in America but is common in European countries. The closest you get in America is some CCNRs saying you can't have a metal roof or the like. Parts of Switzerland literally require you to build a frame which represents the shape of the house you want to build so community members can walk by for some weeks and see how it affects the neighborhood skyline.

Capitalism has probably had the biggest impact. The reason older neighborhoods are beautiful because they were built at a time when practicing a craft was hugely important to a profession. You built those houses with all the mil-work and trim because that's just how it was done. Yes, builders were seeking to turn a profit but in many professions, a kind of cultural ethic prevented raw profiteering. That changed after the war. Post-war programs and an economic boom meant that you could start a business around moving shear volumes of houses. These builders hired people who weren't trained to think a porch without corbels was a sin. It's not just they didn't have the know-how. It's that they didn't think it was important or essential the way an old-school builder might. Modern American neighborhoods are what you get when profit is maximized and community input is minimized.

What people wanted in a house changed as well. The desire for material comforts like multiple bathrooms with indoor plumbing, loads of electrical equipment, forced air systems and more caused a good deal of the cost of the house to shift into equipment rather than aesthetic. The standards of home construction have gone way up too. From structural elements like the foundation to the quality of insulation to weather tightness.

Edit: BTW, I'm not saying one way or the other is the better way to do it. But if you want beauty, that requires a couple things: community review to increase coordination and enforced aesthetic quality. (These used to come from cultural sensibilities and now usually only are the product of regulation, HOA, CCNRs, ordinance, etc.) Both of these things requires the market to sell something people don't necessarily want to pay for.

Re: Why can't we build nice neighborhoods anymore?

#40

Buried in the article is an important point: people care a lot about interior and not much about exterior appearance. Typical cookie-cutter suburban neighborhoods are built assuming nobody walks around in them anyway. On the inside these houses are pretty deluxe, though. Also, in the US it's very difficult to build a house out of solid wood like my house from 40s. New materials might not look as nice but are less was…

I’d strongly disagree about people caring about interiors - houses are built and sold as a list of checkboxes as if they were enterprise software. They have the commensurate problems of enterprise software. Also, I’ll note that maybe only 10% of US houses are designed by an architect in the first place. Developers think in dollars, first, second, and third. They may upgrade your countertop to granite, but that’s the…

If only 10% of homes are designed by architects then it's probably 1% who have an interior designer involved.

We are in the middle of a remodel and involving an interior designer as early in the process as the architect resulted in a much different layout and floor plan than if we only worked with an architect.

The architect helped us make sure the house was structurally sound and the interior designer helped us make sure suited our needs.

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