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Ubuntu 21.10

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Re: Ubuntu 21.10

#31

Post by TekMol »

ProAm wrote: post #23
TekMol wrote: post #17

The one thing that I don't like about Ubuntu is that you don't have a taskbar. It is such a productivity boost to see a list of all windows and their titles. And it let's me organize my work much better when I can organize this list by changing the order of the buttons. Is anybody here using Ubuntu with a taskbar?

What do you mean? Mine has a taskbar from default install. Which window manager are you using?

What do you mean by "What do you mean?"?

I don't know which window manager. I just use Ubuntus defaults. It looks like this:

https://ubuntu.com/wp-content/uploads/a728/2020-04-23-13.05....

Re: Ubuntu 21.10

#32

Post by outworlder »

rlpb wrote: post #15
capableweb wrote: post #3

Funny, I run Ubuntu on my laptop and tried just today to upgrade it (since I'm on 18.04 and have been for a while). But no matter how I try, `do-release-upgrade` won't do the upgrade, complaining about third party repositories (removed all of them as a result), mismatched python versions, and a load of other issues. When I fix one, another one appears. Tried for 5 hours today and eventually gave up. On the other hand…

> I wonder why Ubuntu/Canonical can never get their upgrade game to work properly. Ubuntu developer here. Sounds like you have a really hacked up system there, and that it's your existing system that has issues. Under these circumstances, I don't think it's reasonable to expect an upgrade to be able to work smoothly. Scripts that handle upgrade paths necessarily need to make assumptions that what they are upgrading f…

> Sounds like you have a really hacked up system there

Some people would call this 'a system that's actually being used to do something'.

Don't blame users unless it's clear they are doing something egregious with the system. Installing a different Python version shouldn't break installers, but here we are.

Ubuntu should have taken a page from CoreOS, NixOS and even Arch. CoreOS with their immutable system partitions (and two of them so it can revert to a good one if the current can't boot). NixOS with the immutable packages (and the split between user and system packages). And even Arch with its release model.

Sometimes you have to 'hack your system' to add a new apt source to try to get your GPU working with OpenCL, or you have to modify some config file on /etc to get something else working. Or whatever the use-case might be. Should that break upgrades then? Ubuntu really doesn't provide any guidance or utilities to help with this.

At least figure out a way to install a known sane system configuration, even if it breaks the user's customization. Having a separate system partition by default would actually help a little.

Even Windows allow you to snapshot and rollback changes. Something that Ubuntu users have to – guess what – "hack the system" to get.

Re: Ubuntu 21.10

#33

Post by uniqueuid »

alcidesfonseca wrote: post #25
uniqueuid wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've upgraded from 18.04 in the past, but via intermediary LTS releases (i.e. 20.04). Going all in one step is not possible IMO. Also note that Ubuntu LTS releases only do upgrades after the first point release of a new version. You won't be upgraded to 21.10 until it hits 21.10.1. [edit] Apparently the holdout until point release .1 only applies to LTS versions: > Upgrades from one LTS to the next LTS release are on…

I’ve learned that ubuntu upgrades only if you update to the next version as soon as it is released. I have a 14.04 server that I cannot upgrade anymore and it sucks. Also, NVidia and Cuda drivers mess the upgrade path as well. And ubuntu is the most supported distro.

Yes, Nvidia is special (in a bad way).

They seem especially hell-bent on pushing new versions of CUDA on everyone way before any usable software supports it (i.e. try getting a usable tensorflow or mxnet when your machine auto-upgraded to 11.4.x one day after its release).

Re: Ubuntu 21.10

#34

Post by outworlder »

TekMol wrote: post #31
ProAm wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you mean? Mine has a taskbar from default install. Which window manager are you using?

What do you mean by "What do you mean?"? I don't know which window manager. I just use Ubuntus defaults. It looks like this: https://ubuntu.com/wp-content/uploads/a728/2020-04-23-13.05....

That is a launcher + taskbar. Open an app, it will show that the app is open. Open a new app, it will show there. Similar to the OSX dock.

Re: Ubuntu 21.10

#35

Post by beefjerkins »

_xy8h wrote: post #29
astrea wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

video games :(

Proton. Play on Linux. Lutris.

Yeah, gaming on Linux has seriously come a long way thanks to the efforts of Valve and the wider community. My main issue with gaming on linux is cloud saves; while it generally will work with Steam, other platforms like GoG have no such capacity, and it's a real drag compared to Windows.

Re: Ubuntu 21.10

#36

Post by vladev »

aborsy wrote: post #12

Over a decade of Ubuntu use, could not be happier! I remember in 2000s, I had to edit /etc/ text files to set up internet etc. Nowadays everything works out of box. All sorts of peripherals and hardware is recognized automatically. High quality free open source software is available for most stuff I need. The freedom to choose software and customize Linux, if required, is amazing! Am I missing anything ignoring close…

You'll be surprised, but it's RedHat that made most of that happen. A lot of the important Linux projects are developed mostly by them - Gnome, Wayland, NetworkManager, Pipewire, flatpak, etc.

Ubuntu, on the other hand, seem to like to do many things their way. Like aggressive patching. I recall fontconfig being heavily patched from upstream. Then we have Mir (now almost abandoned), Unity (abandoned), snap (flatpak, done differently, not yet abandoned :).

Re: Ubuntu 21.10

#37

Post by Isthatablackgsd »

TekMol wrote: post #31
ProAm wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you mean? Mine has a taskbar from default install. Which window manager are you using?

What do you mean by "What do you mean?"? I don't know which window manager. I just use Ubuntus defaults. It looks like this: https://ubuntu.com/wp-content/uploads/a728/2020-04-23-13.05....

Desktop Environments is what they meant (GNOME, Unity, other variants).

If your desktop look like similarly to the image you posted, the soft black vertical bar on the far left side of the screen is the taskbar. I think you are using Unity as your DE which is default DE for Ubuntu.

You can change to different DE if Unity is not your liking. There is a couple variants you can use, you can find them in the package manager and install it from there.

Re: Ubuntu 21.10

#39

Post by TekMol »

outworlder wrote: post #34
TekMol wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you mean by "What do you mean?"? I don't know which window manager. I just use Ubuntus defaults. It looks like this: https://ubuntu.com/wp-content/uploads/a728/2020-04-23-13.05....

That is a launcher + taskbar. Open an app, it will show that the app is open. Open a new app, it will show there. Similar to the OSX dock.

Yes. I have been using it for a few weeks now and it sucks.

Because it does not show the titles of all open windows.

And I cannot organize the entries as I wish.

Re: Ubuntu 21.10

#40

Post by capableweb »

rlpb wrote: post #15
capableweb wrote: post #3

Funny, I run Ubuntu on my laptop and tried just today to upgrade it (since I'm on 18.04 and have been for a while). But no matter how I try, `do-release-upgrade` won't do the upgrade, complaining about third party repositories (removed all of them as a result), mismatched python versions, and a load of other issues. When I fix one, another one appears. Tried for 5 hours today and eventually gave up. On the other hand…

> I wonder why Ubuntu/Canonical can never get their upgrade game to work properly. Ubuntu developer here. Sounds like you have a really hacked up system there, and that it's your existing system that has issues. Under these circumstances, I don't think it's reasonable to expect an upgrade to be able to work smoothly. Scripts that handle upgrade paths necessarily need to make assumptions that what they are upgrading f…

I wouldn't expect nothing less than being blamed by Ubuntu developers for a hacked up system, even though I barely described anything.

Thanks for giving me another reason to leave the Ubuntu ecosystem behind me. The condescending tone that your message has seems to be relatively popular in the Ubuntu/Canonical community as well, at least compared to NixOS.

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