California moves toward ban on gas lawnmowers and leaf blowers • Hacker News Board

Re: California moves toward ban on gas lawnmowers and leaf blowers

#31

Post by tenuousemphasis » Sun, Oct 10, 2021, 4:59 PM UTC

tomp wrote: post #23

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #16

This only applies to sales of new equipment starting in 2024. Existing equipment isn't banned. Good move, IMO. Electric yard equipment is now good enough that gas alternatives aren't necessary in most cases. Lawn care professionals will have to make a moderate investment in batteries up front, but even those are becoming more affordable and easier to charge on the go. The combination of multi-battery chargers and veh…

> Electric yard equipment is now good enough that gas alternatives aren't necessary in most cases. Have you used any? The batteries last 100x less than the tiny amount of petrol you pour into. You have to recharge 3x just to mow the whole (moderately sized) lawn. Hopefully newer models are better, but given the slow progress of car batteries, I doubt they're much better.

I have a 10k sq foot lot and can mow the entire thing in one charge of the battery with my Ego mower. It sounds like you're the one who's never actually used one. They also have hot swappable batteries.

Re: California moves toward ban on gas lawnmowers and leaf blowers

#32

Post by AlbertCory » Sun, Oct 10, 2021, 4:59 PM UTC

Cupertino95014 wrote: post #14

It's funny that people who go out of their way to announce their "support" for marginalized people don't bother asking the gardeners who use them why they use them. In California those are overwhelmingly Mexican, and they're working in the hot sun to feed their families. They use a leaf blower because it lets them get done faster and make a little more money.

Why is it, then, that whenever there's a city hearing about this (and Palo Alto, Menlo Park, and other affluent cities), the gardeners always show up and testify against it?

Re: California moves toward ban on gas lawnmowers and leaf blowers

#33

Post by LatinAmerican » Sun, Oct 10, 2021, 5:00 PM UTC

It would be more significative to REDUCE the spent power, instead of changing the power storage from hydrocarbon to battery, e.g. change the grass to something that doesn't require trimming as often, or at all, like clovers.

But for people, beautiful grass is more important than the environment.

Re: California moves toward ban on gas lawnmowers and leaf blowers

#34

Post by chokolad » Sun, Oct 10, 2021, 5:01 PM UTC

dghughes wrote: post #21

I had an electric lawn mower it was great compared to gas mainly due to it being so quiet. Charging wasn't too bad at first one battery for the front yard and one for the back. But then one battery would not charge as much or run for as long as when new. The store had moved on to new models so I couldnt buy a battery in store. Even if I could it was expensive $100, the mower cost $250. Online even the manufacturer se…

I bought an Ego+ leafblower in Home Depot about 7 or so years ago. It was around $500 and the best garden related purchase I made so far. It is still going strong, there is literally no maintenance to perform, it's quiet, does not smell, starts instantly. I don't have to remember to discard fuel at the end of the lawn mowing season, no need to do oil changes etc. A+ will buy again.

Re: California moves toward ban on gas lawnmowers and leaf blowers

#35

Post by salawat » Sun, Oct 10, 2021, 5:01 PM UTC

TanakaTarou wrote: post #20

Cupertino95014 wrote: post #14

It's funny that people who go out of their way to announce their "support" for marginalized people don't bother asking the gardeners who use them why they use them. In California those are overwhelmingly Mexican, and they're working in the hot sun to feed their families. They use a leaf blower because it lets them get done faster and make a little more money.

They can still use a leaf blower but in the future it must be electric powered instead of gasoline.

Yes. In the State of regular rolling blackouts, and electrical grid sparked wildfires.

Nothing could possibly go wrong.

Re: California moves toward ban on gas lawnmowers and leaf blowers

#36

Post by AlbertCory » Sun, Oct 10, 2021, 5:02 PM UTC

chenster wrote: post #11

Totally second this but on a different ground. It's simply the noise it makes. Many people have been left trapped at home, working remotely as a result of Covid. A noisy machine, such as a gas-powered leaf blower, can disrupt a peaceful neighborhood day. Imagine your neighbor to your left mowing the lawn at 8 a.m., then neighbor to your right at 9 a.m., then another cross the street started at 10 a.m., and on and on.…

Addendum: also need to ban children playing outside. They make so much damned noise.

Re: California moves toward ban on gas lawnmowers and leaf blowers

#37

Post by jet_32951 » Sun, Oct 10, 2021, 5:03 PM UTC

ericbarrett wrote: post #13

bob1029 wrote: post #9

I agree with all of this simply on grounds of noise pollution. My neighbor had been running a fucking 2 stroke pressure washer engine all weekend. I'm sure he thinks he's being helpful cleaning all that concrete that people drive on, but it's hell to live next to. At what point do you get to call the cops on someone for this?

Every city I lived in in California (NorCal and SoCal) already banned use of gasoline-powered gardening equipment. But none of them ever enforced it.

Berkeley was getting pretty aggressive with their ICE leaf blower enforcement last time I visited, which led me to wonder what happens when gardeners start buying ICE generators and plugging AC electric equipment into those. AFAICT these laws don't affect that.

Re: California moves toward ban on gas lawnmowers and leaf blowers

#38

Post by kevin_thibedeau » Sun, Oct 10, 2021, 5:03 PM UTC

brianwawok wrote: post #19

irrational wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are we going to see a Home Depot right across the border at every major highway (just like you do between Oregon and Washington)?

Maybe, but there clearly will be less. People are lazy, and aren’t going to go through this much work. See incandescent light bulbs. Most people bought over LED before the ban. You can buy them from China still, but most people don’t. So in the end it wins without doing some kind of crazy enforcement,

Incandescents are engineered to have a short life. Abandoning them is a no brainier. Gas power equipment still has endurance and power that eclipses electric alternatives.

Re: California moves toward ban on gas lawnmowers and leaf blowers

#39

Post by giantg2 » Sun, Oct 10, 2021, 5:05 PM UTC

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #16

This only applies to sales of new equipment starting in 2024. Existing equipment isn't banned. Good move, IMO. Electric yard equipment is now good enough that gas alternatives aren't necessary in most cases. Lawn care professionals will have to make a moderate investment in batteries up front, but even those are becoming more affordable and easier to charge on the go. The combination of multi-battery chargers and veh…

I'd rather not pay $500+ for a push mower with enough batteries to so my lawn. It seems like the negative impact is much higher than the marginal benefits. Why not focus on vehicles (especially planes) and the grid instead?

Re: California moves toward ban on gas lawnmowers and leaf blowers

#40

Post by dragonwriter » Sun, Oct 10, 2021, 5:05 PM UTC

Cupertino95014 wrote: post #14

It's funny that people who go out of their way to announce their "support" for marginalized people don't bother asking the gardeners who use them why they use them. In California those are overwhelmingly Mexican, and they're working in the hot sun to feed their families. They use a leaf blower because it lets them get done faster and make a little more money.

Leaf blowers are used by firms and public agencies because it lets the work get done with fewer labor-hours, reducing labor costs and overall labor demand. By number of firms that may mostly be small independent gardeners, but weighted by CO2 output its probably not.

(Pigovian taxes would be better, ignoring implementation and administration costs, than a straight ban, but simple gas taxes either overcharge cars or undercharge tools like this, which are vastly worse per gallon of gas consumed.)