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An Iraqi who saved Norway from oil (2009)

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Re: An Iraqi who saved Norway from oil (2009)

#31

Post by MichaelZuo »

wintermutestwin wrote: post #18
yunohn wrote: post #16

Norway is a European country, that no Western gov would colonize or disrupt. This is the primary factor around avoiding “corruption” by oil. Developing countries get baited and coerced into extractive economies that benefit the developed ones - modern colonialism. All this talk around foresight and smarts painfully ignores reality.

Compare and contrast US/Brit actions when: a) Norway nationalizes their oil b)Iran nationalizes their oil.

The obvious difference is that Norway fairly compensated the very few assets on the ground owned by foreign parties at the time. Whereas Iran had massive assets on the ground mostly owned by foreign parties, that were ‘compensated’ at fire sale prices?

Re: An Iraqi who saved Norway from oil (2009)

#32

Post by cmrdporcupine »

ggm wrote: post #17
drekipus wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is this comment even meant to convey? The post is about a person who has foresignt and self-determination, what is Australia meant to do about it? Further, Australia is a lot more isolated than Norway. (Australian BTW)

Australia like Britain, did not use Oil royalties to establish abiding sovereign funds to persist after the oil ran out. Instead, the royalty stream has been used to draw down debt, and to replace taxation as an income stream in the present, but oftentimes has led to wasted spend on vanity projects, or on build out of infrastructure purely for extractive industry (mining, oil, gas) which in turn is hoped to generate…

Sounds like Alberta, Canada. Same sickness.

Re: An Iraqi who saved Norway from oil (2009)

#33

Post by dgemm »

AlexCoventry wrote: post #12
dmoy wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He was not sure. They moved for family reasons, as described in one of the first few paragraphs of the article.

He was telling everyone who would listen that Norway would find oil, and needed to prepare itself. > His was a lonely, contrarian voice. After examining exploration results, he wrote a report that warned Norway was sleeping, that even though no one had found oil yet, it was only a question of time. And time was short: the country’s leaders needed to prepare Norway to become an oil nation, but they were doing nothing.…

I think he recognized from the exploration results that the local geology was very favorable even if they hadn't hit actual oil yet.

Re: An Iraqi who saved Norway from oil (2009)

#34

Post by yunohn »

MichaelZuo wrote: post #31
wintermutestwin wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Compare and contrast US/Brit actions when: a) Norway nationalizes their oil b)Iran nationalizes their oil.

The obvious difference is that Norway fairly compensated the very few assets on the ground owned by foreign parties at the time. Whereas Iran had massive assets on the ground mostly owned by foreign parties, that were ‘compensated’ at fire sale prices?

Why were foreign assets on-ground in the first place? When is the last time you heard of a Western country having foreign assets extracting value/resources from within their borders?

Re: An Iraqi who saved Norway from oil (2009)

#35

Post by somedangedname »

alexitorg wrote: post #27
somedangedname wrote: post #6

As a citizen of resource rich Australia this story of foresight and self-determination in a nation just about makes me weep.

I am not sure that comparing only sovereign wealth funds per capita tells the whole story. For instance Australia has a lot more private wealth saved up than Norway. At a lower GINI coefficient as well! I am also not sure that the major resource exports like iron ore and coal have the same ability to extract cartel rent extraction of oil, which is a lot more concentrated in the world. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Li…

Is doing well be a bar against doing better? The wealthy have no hangups about taking profit so why should the rest of us?

Mining activity is 10% of Australia's GDP. Mineral land rights in Australia are property of the government so why do overseas and private-domestic operators get to make all the profit? When Norway's example shows us that a publicly funded and owned industry was possible!

Too late now though - the last attempt to extract more value out of a booming industry led to the downfall of the government: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minerals_Resource_Rent_Tax.

Re: An Iraqi who saved Norway from oil (2009)

#36

Post by vimy »

yunohn wrote: post #34
MichaelZuo wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The obvious difference is that Norway fairly compensated the very few assets on the ground owned by foreign parties at the time. Whereas Iran had massive assets on the ground mostly owned by foreign parties, that were ‘compensated’ at fire sale prices?

Why were foreign assets on-ground in the first place? When is the last time you heard of a Western country having foreign assets extracting value/resources from within their borders?

France state companies suck their Belgian subsidiaries dry. Energy, banks are the two big ones. They tried the same with KLM, the Dutch airline, with less success.

Re: An Iraqi who saved Norway from oil (2009)

#37

Post by simorley »

Does Norway use most of their oil money for social media adverts?

There is another self-congratulatory norway article on the frontpage.

"Norway to hit 100% electric vehicle sales by early next year"

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28777672

There was another one just a few days ago.

"Norway bans gas cars in 2025 but trends point toward 100%EV sales as early April"

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28629184

There have been so much nonsense about norway peddled online for the past decade that I roll my eyes when I read the headline.

Re: An Iraqi who saved Norway from oil (2009)

#38

Post by simorley »

somedangedname wrote: post #6

As a citizen of resource rich Australia this story of foresight and self-determination in a nation just about makes me weep.

What are you talking about? Australia hasn't had a recession in decades. Australia has done well with all the resources it stole from the aborigines. Most people living in australia has never experienced an economic downturn.

https://au.finance.yahoo.com/news/why-australia-hasnt-had-a-...

Australia hasn't had a recession since the early 90s and you are complaining?

Re: An Iraqi who saved Norway from oil (2009)

#39

Post by femto »

alexitorg wrote: post #27
somedangedname wrote: post #6

As a citizen of resource rich Australia this story of foresight and self-determination in a nation just about makes me weep.

I am not sure that comparing only sovereign wealth funds per capita tells the whole story. For instance Australia has a lot more private wealth saved up than Norway. At a lower GINI coefficient as well! I am also not sure that the major resource exports like iron ore and coal have the same ability to extract cartel rent extraction of oil, which is a lot more concentrated in the world. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Li…

Another part of the story is to compare the public mindedness of Farouk Al-Kasim with Gina Rinehart and Clive Palmer.

Re: An Iraqi who saved Norway from oil (2009)

#40

Post by chad_oliver »

simorley wrote: post #38
somedangedname wrote: post #6

As a citizen of resource rich Australia this story of foresight and self-determination in a nation just about makes me weep.

What are you talking about? Australia hasn't had a recession in decades. Australia has done well with all the resources it stole from the aborigines. Most people living in australia has never experienced an economic downturn. https://au.finance.yahoo.com/news/why-australia-hasnt-had-a-... Australia hasn't had a recession since the early 90s and you are complaining?

While you're absolutely correct that Australia hasn't had a recession in that time, this hides the fact that there have been periods when GDP _per-capita_ has declined. Or to put it another way: Australia's recessions have been hidden by immigration-driven growth.

Of course, immigration-driven growth is great! But for people on the ground, what matters is GDP per capita, not total GDP.

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