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Valve opens up a Steam Deck to explain why it thinks you shouldn’t

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Re: Valve opens up a Steam Deck to explain why it thinks you shouldn’t

#31

Post by kappuchino »

john_moscow wrote: post #18
tediousdemise wrote: post #6

This is a whole new type of gaslighting being employed by big corporations in the war against the right to repair. The pervasive practice of designing hardware that is difficult to take apart or service needs to end, full stop.

Not here. "Difficult to take apart" are the finicky plastic latches all around the seam between the 2 halves of the case. The ones that you can sort of open by sliding the credit card around the seam for half an hour. Or give up, pry them with a screwdriver, and scratch the whole thing in numerous places. I would give Valve credit here for the sole act of not putting them. That said, I would call BS on SSD vs Wi-Fi i…

RE: BS You said it yourself: "... most of the cases ...". For example, my apartment does not have a carpet and I wear cotton clothing most of the time. So my enviroment is less likely to produce static electricity. But what about others? Its all in the numbers: 1.000.000 units sold (just for stats sake) - 10.000 open it up, 100 have static issues due floor, clothing, etc - some units will fry and die. Totally avoidable, hence the remark in the video.

Re: Valve opens up a Steam Deck to explain why it thinks you shouldn’t

#32

Post by capableweb »

mastrsushi wrote: post #24

What happened to everyone talking up the “customization” aspects? Guess we’ll have to accept the fact that it’s just a gameboy with an AMD64.

> it’s just a gameboy with an AMD64

How is this even remotely true? The only similarity is that they are both portable, or what am I missing in your argument here?

> What happened to everyone talking up the “customization” aspects?

This video proves that it'll be dirty easy to customize the components that are being removed. Want your own thumbsticks? Go ahead, here is a instruction video for how to change them. Not sure what's missing for you here?

Re: Valve opens up a Steam Deck to explain why it thinks you shouldn’t

#33

Post by rPlayer6554 »

I think this is a fair enough position. I don't expect every device to be easily repairable, especially a gen 1 device. They already have enough trouble getting it to fit into a size that is usable. They give clear reasons for you not to do repairs yourself, but they don't impose any arbitrary restrictions. If you want to void your warranty, they give you the full freedom and knowledge to do so.

Re: Valve opens up a Steam Deck to explain why it thinks you shouldn’t

#34

Post by beezischillin »

I'm not necessarily a fan of the complicated design but I accept that it might've been necessary for miniaturisation.

Other than that, to me the message of this video is that if anything goes people will have replacement parts available and a repair shop can take care of it. Assuming that's the intention it's still pretty good.

Re: Valve opens up a Steam Deck to explain why it thinks you shouldn’t

#35

Post by bspammer »

tediousdemise wrote: post #6

This is a whole new type of gaslighting being employed by big corporations in the war against the right to repair. The pervasive practice of designing hardware that is difficult to take apart or service needs to end, full stop.

You need to watch the video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dxnr2FAADAs

I haven't seen anything so pro-consumer from a major electronics manufacturer in years. It's so refreshing being talked to like an adult with agency.

Re: Valve opens up a Steam Deck to explain why it thinks you shouldn’t

#36

Post by freemint »

exporectomy wrote: post #25
tediousdemise wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’re strawmanning my argument by picking components least likely to be repaired or replaced by the average user, completely dodging the usual suspects. Non-removable batteries are almost always the first parts that go bad in handheld devices, and there are absolutely no excuses for using them other than greed and incompetence.

What do you mean by non-removable battery? The video shows how to unplug it. I'm sure it can be replaced by any normal repairman or hobbyist. Aftermarket batteries will also surely be available like they are for other popular devices.

If it is not intended to be removed (because the SteamDeck should remain closed) it is non (user-)removable in my opinion.

Re: Valve opens up a Steam Deck to explain why it thinks you shouldn’t

#37

Post by rightbyte »

lmilcin wrote: post #26
genocidicbunny wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you and the parent comment agree. Just opening an electronic device is not necessarily damaging to it. The damage is done by improper handling. The FCCs argument is based on the notion that as long as you handle the device correctly, the manufacturer shouldn't be able to deny warranty _just_ because you opened it. You need to actually damage the device to lose out on warranty service.

What I mean is that it is almost never possible to prove who caused ESD damage. It just fries some unfortunate internal part of some integrated circuit. And I can understand companies not wanting to deal with this. When I design electronics I often think of how to make it resistant from people touching it on the outside (ports, enclosure, etc.) but there is about nothing I can do to prevent it getting killed due to d…

What consumer electronics actually have problems with finger ESD? Ram? My computers don't have any "warranty void" stickers.

Also, being worried about handling PCBs by direct touch is just silly.

Re: Valve opens up a Steam Deck to explain why it thinks you shouldn’t

#38

Post by lmilcin »

rightbyte wrote: post #37
lmilcin wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What I mean is that it is almost never possible to prove who caused ESD damage. It just fries some unfortunate internal part of some integrated circuit. And I can understand companies not wanting to deal with this. When I design electronics I often think of how to make it resistant from people touching it on the outside (ports, enclosure, etc.) but there is about nothing I can do to prevent it getting killed due to d…

What consumer electronics actually have problems with finger ESD? Ram? My computers don't have any "warranty void" stickers. Also, being worried about handling PCBs by direct touch is just silly.

Sooo.... what exactly is your professional experience in the area?

I own an electronics lab, design and produce my own circuit boards, I have worked for many years in embedded space including for Samsung. I am not professional electronics engineer by any means, I just know enough to handle electronics safely on daily basis.

Please, do not give people misleading, dangerous advice especially if you have absolutely no experience in electronics.

Whenever you are handling electronics you are supposed to follow certain procedure to ensure there is no electrostatic charge accumulated on you or objects you are handling and to dissipate any potential between you and the objects. And yes, that also means doing any repair on any electronics.

There is reason why RAM and other components are sold in ESD shielding bags. These are not cheap. Do you think they are doing this for fun? Or maybe there is a reason that makes it worth it to invest in an expensive bag? Do you think they would be doing this if the electronic boards placed in them were resistant to ESD?

Electrostatic discharge event may not necessarily mean immediate death to your device. It may manifest itself with instability, degraded performance, reduced life of components, strange behavior or other delayed effects.

It may be repair shop giving back the device that turns on but you discovering that it hangs from time to time.

And yes, that also includes PC components like memory chips.

Producers of PC components are fully aware that they are being handled by clueless people like most of us and so they put some protections in the components that are most likely to be handled manually.

These protection may be able to save the device up to certain voltage of the discharge and up to certain number of discharges. But it is really hard to tell because, as I mentioned, most effects of ESD are not necessarily easily detected or connected with the event.

You need to understand that you need many thousands of volts to get a spark, but most new chips can be fried by discharge as small as tens or hundreds of volts -- well below any capability of a human to detect.

Re: Valve opens up a Steam Deck to explain why it thinks you shouldn’t

#39

Post by 0x000000001 »

tediousdemise wrote: post #12
colejohnson66 wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can’t have tiny surface mount components packed onto the PCBs in phones without trade offs in repaiability. No one[a] is going to buy a game console made of discrete logic and through hole passives when the PS5, X Box, and Switch do a much better job at giving consumers what they want with 0402 (or smaller) passives. I applaud Valve for doing this video. They’re admitting that the device is too complex for the av…

You’re strawmanning my argument by picking components least likely to be repaired or replaced by the average user, completely dodging the usual suspects. Non-removable batteries are almost always the first parts that go bad in handheld devices, and there are absolutely no excuses for using them other than greed and incompetence.

> non-removable battery

Considering how important it is to keep Lithium Ion batteries within a safe temp range for longevity and the risk of thermal runaway I'm not so sure we will ever see easily replaceable batteries again without a new chemistry.

Everyone seems to have fond memories of their AA's and NiCad's but ignores that replaceable Lithium tend to suck... all my old phones that had replaceable batteries like the Google Nexus had batteries that got way too hot and subsequently lost their ability to hold a full charge

Re: Valve opens up a Steam Deck to explain why it thinks you shouldn’t

#40

Post by PoignardAzur »

In general, Valve is really consumer-friendly when it comes to hardware.

I recently destroyed my Index's tether cable, mostly my fault, and their tech support sent me a new one for free with very little hassle, and with instructions on how to replace it.

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