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Andrew Yang Founds the Forward Party

forwardparty.com

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Re: Andrew Yang Founds the Forward Party

#31

Post by endisneigh »

lalaland1125 wrote: post #22
endisneigh wrote: post #12

One thing people misunderstand about third parties is that they don't need to win. If they're structured correctly (this is by far the most difficult bit), they can have significant political influence without ever winning a single election. For example, love him or hate him, Ralph Nader probably swayed the 2000 Election and had incredible influence over the outcome (for better or worse). Coming back to the Forward P…

The main issue is that third parties often have the opposite effect that their supporters want. They draw voters from the more aligned main party, causing that aligned main party to lose elections. Third parties hurt the interests of their own supporters. There are good reasons why the Democratic Party tends to support the Libertarian Party and the Republican Party tends to support the Green Party [1]. 1. https://www…

This isn't necessarily true. The nuance in the third party vs. aligned party is by definition the distinction between them. Depending on what you prioritize an effective third party can force the aligned party to change.

From the point of view of the third party supporter, this would be exactly what you would want.

In other words, an effective third party can be a great catalyst toward making some minor (or major) change in the most closely aligned parties.

Re: Andrew Yang Founds the Forward Party

#32

Post by FFRefresh »

I'll admit some degree of ignorance on all of the considerations with introducing a new party. But on a surface-level, I welcome more competition for ideas/platforms/parties in the American political system.

My naive fantasy would be that an increased number of viable parties would have a knock-on effect of reducing polarization/tribalization in American political discourse, and hopefully spur bottoms up thinking on good policy. If there were 6 parties for instance, it would hopefully force voters out of the 'good party vs bad party' or 'us vs them' dynamics that a 2 party system invites.

Political allegiance is a social signal today, and there are pressures to not question the party your social group votes for lest you be confused to be a bad person of the other side. This doesn't invite holding government accountable when it's your side doing the questionable things.

Re: Andrew Yang Founds the Forward Party

#33

Post by lalaland1125 »

endisneigh wrote: post #31
lalaland1125 wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The main issue is that third parties often have the opposite effect that their supporters want. They draw voters from the more aligned main party, causing that aligned main party to lose elections. Third parties hurt the interests of their own supporters. There are good reasons why the Democratic Party tends to support the Libertarian Party and the Republican Party tends to support the Green Party [1]. 1. https://www…

This isn't necessarily true. The nuance in the third party vs. aligned party is by definition the distinction between them. Depending on what you prioritize an effective third party can force the aligned party to change. From the point of view of the third party supporter, this would be exactly what you would want. In other words, an effective third party can be a great catalyst toward making some minor (or major) ch…

The problem is that doesn't appear to happen in practice.

For example, how did Trump winning in 2016 help your average Green Party supporter achieve more of the change they wanted in the aligned Democratic Party?

Re: Andrew Yang Founds the Forward Party

#34

Post by endisneigh »

lalaland1125 wrote: post #33
endisneigh wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isn't necessarily true. The nuance in the third party vs. aligned party is by definition the distinction between them. Depending on what you prioritize an effective third party can force the aligned party to change. From the point of view of the third party supporter, this would be exactly what you would want. In other words, an effective third party can be a great catalyst toward making some minor (or major) ch…

The problem is that doesn't appear to happen in practice. For example, how did Trump winning in 2016 help your average Green Party supporter achieve more of the change they wanted in the aligned Democratic Party?

I'm not saying it happens in practice, I'm saying that's often the goal.

Re: Andrew Yang Founds the Forward Party

#35

Post by lalaland1125 »

tryptophan wrote: post #14
a_t48 wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm tempted to back them purely for Ranked Choice Voting. Will be keeping an eye on this for the future.

Ugh I support electoral reform, but why the obsession with ranked choice? It is the second WORST voting system after first past the post, which is what we have now.

Ranked choice has a lot of advantages over the alternatives that are often underestimated by people too worried about theory.

The big advantage of ranked choice is that it is simple to understand and implement.

In elections, it is essential that the average person understand exactly how the system works. An election result that people don't understand/trust is worse than useless.

Re: Andrew Yang Founds the Forward Party

#36

Post by kevmoo1 »

yazaddaruvala wrote: post #21
tryptophan wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ugh I support electoral reform, but why the obsession with ranked choice? It is the second WORST voting system after first past the post, which is what we have now.

Ranked choice seems to be the best one I've read about. Could you help us understand what voting system might be better?

Ranked Choice (IRV) is better than Plurality, but there are better options.

Read about the Condorcet Method

Re: Andrew Yang Founds the Forward Party

#38

Post by nathanvanfleet »

jrm4 wrote: post #18

Meh. Look, I hope people begin to understand that "ideas" in politics are just about as valuable as "ideas" in the IT field; which is to say -- they're fun to have and they can be exciting, but they're also pretty much worthless without execution. A tough lesson: If you support a presidential candidate because of their ideas, you're unlikely to get very far. The President usually needs to be like the boring CEO of th…

Pure centrism from your comment very nice if satire.

Re: Andrew Yang Founds the Forward Party

#39

Post by lalaland1125 »

kevmoo1 wrote: post #36
yazaddaruvala wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ranked choice seems to be the best one I've read about. Could you help us understand what voting system might be better?

Ranked Choice (IRV) is better than Plurality, but there are better options. Read about the Condorcet Method

The Condorcet Method has a huge disadvantage that it is hard to understand.

Being simple to understand is crucial for voting systems and I would argue is the most important factor since an election without public buy-in is worse than worthless.

Re: Andrew Yang Founds the Forward Party

#40

Post by lalaland1125 »

endisneigh wrote: post #34
lalaland1125 wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that doesn't appear to happen in practice. For example, how did Trump winning in 2016 help your average Green Party supporter achieve more of the change they wanted in the aligned Democratic Party?

I'm not saying it happens in practice, I'm saying that's often the goal.

So you agree that it's a silly idea that doesn't actually work?
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