Live data from Hacker News

Open Office Layout is Bad for Brain

infoq.com

31–40 of 67 posts

Re: Open Office Layout is Bad for Brain

#31
post #26

Headphones are an integral part of the open office layout, especially for developers. I recommend decent-quality sound-isolating earbuds which can give you a personal audio environment at any time without irritating your coworkers. Using headphones is a sign you don't want to be disturbed, as well. This isn't a sacrosanct rule, but it should be taken into consideration when you choose to interact with someone, possib…

Headphones are a great idea for some people. I for myself work best in silence. Even if there is music playing it disturbs my concetration. Maybe I am especially weak at focussing, but I think to some degree this is true to everybody who listens to music while working.

I disagree. For certain tasks, certain types of music, ideally albums I have heard many times before, help me to relax and stay focussed. For others, I cannot concentrate with music.

I find it quite a disadvantage in my current office that when I need to do something detailed in a rigorous way I do not get to wear headphones.

Re: Open Office Layout is Bad for Brain

#32
post #27

Its all about change and shared state. Humans (unlike, say, chickens or purely functional systems) cache state in their heads about the world. In fact the brain operates so slowly compared to a processor that without caching we could not operate. For example, when we catch a ball the reason we are able to predict its trajectory is not because we measure its current speed and direction and then perform some calculatio…

There is a good chance there were paragraphs when he wrote it and HN ignored it, because HN comments require an extra newline. Bad user or bad usability?

That was exactly what happened. I can hardly read the comment now myself and its too late to edit it. At the risk of just adding noise to the thread here it is with paragraphs:

Its all about change and shared state. Humans (unlike, say, chickens or purely functional systems) cache state in their heads about the world. In fact the brain operates so slowly compared to a processor that without caching we could not operate. For example, when we catch a ball the reason we are able to predict its trajectory is not because we measure its current speed and direction and then perform some calculation and repeat for every frame. It is because we compare it with the cached (and to some extent abstracted) memory of a thousand balls we caught before, find the closest match and do a little extrapolation from it. The book 'On Intelligence' covers this. The phrase he uses to describe the human brain is a "memory prediction machine".

The problem with state of course is not the state itself, but the fact that there is more than one copy of it. In a purely functional program (or a chicken!) there is only one copy which is passed around, nothing is retained. If you put your hand over a chickens eyes they just go completely still, nothing in, nothing out. In more stateful systems the best we can do is to minimise the sharing of state i.e assign ownership of the state to certain subsystems. As humans are stateful this also works out to be the best model for them. This means that the optimum situation for quality in programming is to have one person develop all of the code. Its not always possible to do this and so the next best thing is to try to split the solution up into subsystems with well defined interfaces. Even at this we often have to assign a small team to each subsystem and we usually try to further decompose that but effectively at this point we are sharing state between people. Everybody needs to update their cache so that they all have a very similar mental model of the solution or there will be problems. They need to update their cache all the time as it is a model of a world that is being changed by the solution itself as the objective of the solution is to change the world in some way.

The problem is that when the state of the world changes its not as simple as passing that state value to one of the actors i.e. Its not like passing some simple value like an integer around the place. The truth is that when the state of the problem changes in some signifigant way then the people involved need to have time, in peace and quiet, to update their complex model in a way that is consistent with the change. They have to figure out what the new information means in the context of the problem and more importantly they need to give their brain time to come up with a solution that fits with the new state of the problem. So there are two ways a system based on shared state between people can fail. 1) Somebody fails to get notified of a state change. 2) Somebody does not spend the time to properly integrate this into their understanding. In either case that person will go around with a faulty model of the system and that is when the bugs start to happen. As far as I can see the agile guys seem to be primarly focused on 1) and neglect 2). I think you need to work on both (given that you have no option but to work on a system with many people in which you cannot completely isolate the functionality to be implemented by each person).

So what does this have to do with office space? Have an open plan office but tell people to stay at home for the morning, or tell people to stay at home every second day. i.e. Make sure they are in communication AND make sure they have time on their own to digest the communication properly. The reason I know this works is that I worked like this as a contractor for a while and it was easily the most productive period I ever had. Much more productive that working in an open plan office all the time and even slightly more productive than working on something completely alone.

Re: Open Office Layout is Bad for Brain

#33
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Headphones are a great idea for some people. I for myself work best in silence. Even if there is music playing it disturbs my concetration. Maybe I am especially weak at focussing, but I think to some degree this is true to everybody who listens to music while working.

I disagree. For certain tasks, certain types of music, ideally albums I have heard many times before, help me to relax and stay focussed. For others, I cannot concentrate with music. I find it quite a disadvantage in my current office that when I need to do something detailed in a rigorous way I do not get to wear headphones.

>ideally albums I have heard many times before

I find this to be true also.

Additionally, I've noticed that during the planning stage music is less helpful/possibly distracting. However, once I've more or less decided what to do and am focused more on implementation music can help me focus.

Re: Open Office Layout is Bad for Brain

#34

Headphones are an integral part of the open office layout, especially for developers. I recommend decent-quality sound-isolating earbuds which can give you a personal audio environment at any time without irritating your coworkers. Using headphones is a sign you don't want to be disturbed, as well. This isn't a sacrosanct rule, but it should be taken into consideration when you choose to interact with someone, possib…

Yes, it's a sign that I don't want to be disturbed. It's also a sign that people routinely fail to pick up on or just plain ignore in order to ask me mundane questions.

Re: Open Office Layout is Bad for Brain

#35
I personally can't concentrate in any kind of open-space office. When I need to focus, the very feeling of other people being present is a huge distraction to me. It was true since early childhood - I couldn't do homework or learn anything at home if I wasn't alone in a room with doors closed.

I don't really know how to explain it.

Re: Open Office Layout is Bad for Brain

#36
post #26

Headphones are an integral part of the open office layout, especially for developers. I recommend decent-quality sound-isolating earbuds which can give you a personal audio environment at any time without irritating your coworkers. Using headphones is a sign you don't want to be disturbed, as well. This isn't a sacrosanct rule, but it should be taken into consideration when you choose to interact with someone, possib…

Headphones are a great idea for some people. I for myself work best in silence. Even if there is music playing it disturbs my concetration. Maybe I am especially weak at focussing, but I think to some degree this is true to everybody who listens to music while working.

I agree. I've had better results listening to white noise.

Re: Open Office Layout is Bad for Brain

#37
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a good chance there were paragraphs when he wrote it and HN ignored it, because HN comments require an extra newline. Bad user or bad usability?

That was exactly what happened. I can hardly read the comment now myself and its too late to edit it. At the risk of just adding noise to the thread here it is with paragraphs: Its all about change and shared state. Humans (unlike, say, chickens or purely functional systems) cache state in their heads about the world. In fact the brain operates so slowly compared to a processor that without caching we could not opera…

Slightly OT, but I've read that humans simplify ball catching by moving in such a way as to keep the ball in the same place in their field of view. There might be more details in the papers below, but paywalled so I don't know:

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/01679457939...

http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/xpl/freeabs_all.jsp?arnumber=1014...

"the eyes and/or the head move so that the image of the moving object is maintained at the same place on the fovea"

Re: Open Office Layout is Bad for Brain

#38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree. For certain tasks, certain types of music, ideally albums I have heard many times before, help me to relax and stay focussed. For others, I cannot concentrate with music. I find it quite a disadvantage in my current office that when I need to do something detailed in a rigorous way I do not get to wear headphones.

>ideally albums I have heard many times before I find this to be true also. Additionally, I've noticed that during the planning stage music is less helpful/possibly distracting. However, once I've more or less decided what to do and am focused more on implementation music can help me focus.

Music is distracting when you need to be creative, because your creative brain is effectively distracted by the music. I read about a study[1] recently that presented a programming problem to two groups; one group listened to music while they solved it and the other group had silence. While each group performed acceptably with regards to creating a solution that conformed to the spec, the music-listening group neglected to notice that a series of transformations in the problem spec turned out to result in no changes whatsoever. The group working in silence was able to make the connection and came up with a more efficient program.

[1] Sorry, can't find the source. Will update if I find it.

Re: Open Office Layout is Bad for Brain

#39
post #26

Headphones are an integral part of the open office layout, especially for developers. I recommend decent-quality sound-isolating earbuds which can give you a personal audio environment at any time without irritating your coworkers. Using headphones is a sign you don't want to be disturbed, as well. This isn't a sacrosanct rule, but it should be taken into consideration when you choose to interact with someone, possib…

Headphones are a great idea for some people. I for myself work best in silence. Even if there is music playing it disturbs my concetration. Maybe I am especially weak at focussing, but I think to some degree this is true to everybody who listens to music while working.

I've used earplugs but haven't so much since I got a pair of Bose QC 15 noise-cancelling headphones. They work wonders for blocking out background conversation.

For moderate levels and when I am in a relaxed state to begin with, I can leave the destructive interference feature off. The insulation all by itself is very effective. If the noise is really annoying (or if I'm anxious or tired or something) I can turn on the noise-cancellation. It can feel a little awkward at first and I have a vague sense that it might not be good for my ears, but essentially all external distractions just fade into the background. To interrupt me you basically have to walk up and tap on my desk.

Re: Open Office Layout is Bad for Brain

#40

I personally can't concentrate in any kind of open-space office. When I need to focus, the very feeling of other people being present is a huge distraction to me. It was true since early childhood - I couldn't do homework or learn anything at home if I wasn't alone in a room with doors closed. I don't really know how to explain it.

Same here. Nobody believes me when I tell them I can feel others' presence in a visceral way.

I have lesser but still significant problems in cube environments. Would love to get out of the cube farm...and I believe I'd produce a lot more value if I weren't stuck in an uncomfortable place.

Post reply on HN