PayPal raises fees for most domestic transaction types to 3.49% + $0.49 • Hacker News Board

Re: PayPal raises fees for most domestic transaction types to 3.49% + $0.49

#31

Post by TheSpiceIsLife » Tue, Oct 05, 2021, 7:00 AM UTC

brnt wrote: post #12

londons_explore wrote: post #6

It amazes me that despite not really modifying the core PayPal service for 10+ years, they are still a market leader. Parts of their business don't have much network effect, and competitors could totally rebuild the tech and eat away at the market share... Yet somehow that hasn't happened.

All this, and all that other Silicon Valley financial infra, because direct bank tranfers are (presumably?) not known or difficult or impossible. From my northwestern European perspective, it's weird this straightforward solution that we've had since, well, the fifties? is overlooked.

What does direct bank transfers offer in the way of dispute resolution?

Here in Australia we’re constantly warned not to transfer money direct to sellers bank account as there’s pretty much no way you’ll get your money back if the goods don’t arrive, and there’s not much the police will do for small value transactions.

Re: PayPal raises fees for most domestic transaction types to 3.49% + $0.49

#32

Post by s17n » Tue, Oct 05, 2021, 7:03 AM UTC

brnt wrote: post #12

londons_explore wrote: post #6

It amazes me that despite not really modifying the core PayPal service for 10+ years, they are still a market leader. Parts of their business don't have much network effect, and competitors could totally rebuild the tech and eat away at the market share... Yet somehow that hasn't happened.

All this, and all that other Silicon Valley financial infra, because direct bank tranfers are (presumably?) not known or difficult or impossible. From my northwestern European perspective, it's weird this straightforward solution that we've had since, well, the fifties? is overlooked.

There's no way to do peer to peer direct bank transfers in the US.

Also, in the US, credit card providers accept all liability for fraud, as a consumer there's no way you will ever lose money to credit card fraud.

Re: PayPal raises fees for most domestic transaction types to 3.49% + $0.49

#33

Post by pjerem » Tue, Oct 05, 2021, 7:04 AM UTC

londons_explore wrote: post #6

It amazes me that despite not really modifying the core PayPal service for 10+ years, they are still a market leader. Parts of their business don't have much network effect, and competitors could totally rebuild the tech and eat away at the market share... Yet somehow that hasn't happened.

PayPal do have a network effect amongst customers who choses PayPal because they marketed for decades that purchases through PayPal are protected in case of issues.

Re: PayPal raises fees for most domestic transaction types to 3.49% + $0.49

#34

Post by brnt » Tue, Oct 05, 2021, 7:07 AM UTC

londons_explore wrote: post #20

brnt wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All this, and all that other Silicon Valley financial infra, because direct bank tranfers are (presumably?) not known or difficult or impossible. From my northwestern European perspective, it's weird this straightforward solution that we've had since, well, the fifties? is overlooked.

Address books in phones don't store people's Bank details, making it a pain to pay someone. Many people don't have their own bank details memorized either. Being able to send money to someone just knowing their phone number is the real value-add.

You can ask someones account number.

Re: PayPal raises fees for most domestic transaction types to 3.49% + $0.49

#35

Post by Semaphor » Tue, Oct 05, 2021, 7:08 AM UTC

saurik wrote: post #23

dessant wrote: post #7

PayPal is awful for small transactions, I regularily get donations for my projects that are literally 0 USD, because all of it is eaten away by PayPal fees, and even for a 5 USD donation you end up losing around 15% of the transaction amount. Do you know of any other service that is suitable for microtransactions, besides cryptocurrencies?

I don't know if they support it for accounts that are receiving contributions instead of payments (and I have no clue what is going on now with this new change today: I need to research this), but PayPal has also offered a "micropayments" tier that costs 5%+$0.05 instead of the 2.9%+$0.30, which is much better for small transactions. You had to activate it with customer support, though.

Is that actually mentioned anywhere, publically? We use it and as it’s account-wide, we always calculate which account we have to use to minimize fees.

Re: PayPal raises fees for most domestic transaction types to 3.49% + $0.49

#36

Post by sdrinf » Tue, Oct 05, 2021, 7:08 AM UTC

Has anyone ran a recent A/B test for Stripe direct CC-based checkout + paypal vs Stripe only in the context of B2C subscriptions? Last time I've checked circa 2014-2015, there was consumer trust in Paypal (for cancellation/etc), and so having that option added ~+10% conversion rate (or so), but would appreciate more recent data, thank you!

Re: PayPal raises fees for most domestic transaction types to 3.49% + $0.49

#37

Post by brnt » Tue, Oct 05, 2021, 7:09 AM UTC

ajkdhcb2 wrote: post #26

brnt wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All this, and all that other Silicon Valley financial infra, because direct bank tranfers are (presumably?) not known or difficult or impossible. From my northwestern European perspective, it's weird this straightforward solution that we've had since, well, the fifties? is overlooked.

Fraud. Hacked bank accounts. Chargebacks. The brutality of banking customer service. These are all good reasons. PayPal does have a dispute system for 'buyer/seller protection'.

You can only transfer to a number, you can't (easily) charge back already effectuated transfer, nor can you (with a consumer account) debit a number. All of these things are covered.

Buyer protection has rarely been something one needs. Some (many nowadays?) banks offer insurance for this.

Re: PayPal raises fees for most domestic transaction types to 3.49% + $0.49

#38

Post by nine_k » Tue, Oct 05, 2021, 7:10 AM UTC

Urgo wrote: post #11

This was actually announced in a easy to miss email with the subject "Upcoming change to your account" sent on June 30 2021. It did get a little press that day but on the fee increase day I saw little reporting. These changes went into effect on August 2nd 2021. Here is a PDF that has a breakdown showing all the changes that happened that day [1] To PayPal's credit, this was their first rate increase in a very long t…

I blame the increased cost of compliance.

And also the fact that they are one of the few established and widely accepted payment / transfer systems, so their customers aren't going to flee in droves.

Re: PayPal raises fees for most domestic transaction types to 3.49% + $0.49

#39

Post by jointpdf » Tue, Oct 05, 2021, 7:13 AM UTC

dessant wrote: post #7

PayPal is awful for small transactions, I regularily get donations for my projects that are literally 0 USD, because all of it is eaten away by PayPal fees, and even for a 5 USD donation you end up losing around 15% of the transaction amount. Do you know of any other service that is suitable for microtransactions, besides cryptocurrencies?

What about Venmo? Or Cash App?

Venmo has been ubiquitous for years—everyone seems to have it. I’ve used it for everything from buying plants at the farmer’s market to paying rent and medical expenses.

Edit: Of course the default broadcasting of your payments to a social feed is bonkers and needs to be turned off.

Re: PayPal raises fees for most domestic transaction types to 3.49% + $0.49

#40

Post by brnt » Tue, Oct 05, 2021, 7:13 AM UTC

TheSpiceIsLife wrote: post #31

brnt wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All this, and all that other Silicon Valley financial infra, because direct bank tranfers are (presumably?) not known or difficult or impossible. From my northwestern European perspective, it's weird this straightforward solution that we've had since, well, the fifties? is overlooked.

What does direct bank transfers offer in the way of dispute resolution? Here in Australia we’re constantly warned not to transfer money direct to sellers bank account as there’s pretty much no way you’ll get your money back if the goods don’t arrive, and there’s not much the police will do for small value transactions.

> What does direct bank transfers offer in the way of dispute resolution?

It's just not something that comes up. The number of such stories I read on here/through Anglo-Saxon sources far outnumbers the number of local problems. Fewer shady sellers, perhaps?

To your question: although not as easy as a charge back, banks let you appeal. Some (perhaps many now) also offer cheap or free 30/90/365 day purchase insurance.

Also, for small value transactions there's a special legal channel.