Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

As a whistleblower prepares to speak out, what can be done to rein in Facebook?

theguardian.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

31–40 of 129 posts

Re: As a whistleblower prepares to speak out, what can be done to rein in Facebook?

#31

Post by rendall »

pfisherman wrote: post #24
spectramax wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’d say Twitter has done more damage to the society than FB. Twitter is a pure outrage machine. I might be in the minority but Instagram is still awesome. It’s gotten more ads but most of them are quite interesting. I’ve found made in USA goods from IG ads like this: https://psudo.com/

My understanding is that the scope of Facebook ads and surveillance is not limited to Facebook properties. The Facebook pixel and SDK are pretty ubiquitous. Twitter is actually useful if you limit who you follow to the right people. My experience of Twitter is a bunch of academics promoting their articles. Lior Pachter trashing tSNE and UMAP is about the spiciest it gets.

I know very few people on Twitter. Facebook, on the other hand, is nearly a requirement even to have a social life. I don't use FB, but I definitely miss out on general invitations.

It is strictly not possible to participate in local Burning Man events here in Finland without a Facebook account, for instance. They flat out refuse to promote through any other platform or channel.

Re: As a whistleblower prepares to speak out, what can be done to rein in Facebook?

#32

Post by spectramax »

pfisherman wrote: post #24
spectramax wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’d say Twitter has done more damage to the society than FB. Twitter is a pure outrage machine. I might be in the minority but Instagram is still awesome. It’s gotten more ads but most of them are quite interesting. I’ve found made in USA goods from IG ads like this: https://psudo.com/

My understanding is that the scope of Facebook ads and surveillance is not limited to Facebook properties. The Facebook pixel and SDK are pretty ubiquitous. Twitter is actually useful if you limit who you follow to the right people. My experience of Twitter is a bunch of academics promoting their articles. Lior Pachter trashing tSNE and UMAP is about the spiciest it gets.

I fundamentally disagree with Twitter's ideological position. Banning the president, allowing Taliban leaders, it is a censorship extravaganza and the selling point is ecochambered short blips of outrage. What you're pointing out is also true - there is some good stuff on Twitter just like any platform. Most political content on Twitter is horrible, left / right - both.

FB goes against silicon valley's zeitgeist and it gets disproportional hate. IMO, all social media is toxic and it has done more damage to the society than benefited ... but the biases are very much evident in how each service is perceived by the larger tech community. FB also did many eggregious things, no doubt. Election interference, etc.

Meanwhile, Tiktok is HN's darling.

Another thing is Twitter has become de facto channels for official communications of government bodies. How do you access these official channels? With a phone number of course when you try to register an account - which is required. Twitter has destroyed the world by coaslescing social media, outrage tactics, government bodies into one hot boiling soup of toxins.

Re: As a whistleblower prepares to speak out, what can be done to rein in Facebook?

#33

Post by user3939382 »

jorgesborges wrote: post #10
jqpabc123 wrote: post #2

Facebook is primarily a propaganda organization. It's main objective is to influence, manipulate and subvert the user's judgment and convince them to buy something --- be it physical product or ideology. To further this objective, it has developed an incredibly detailed psychological profile of each individual user using deeply personal info willing surrendered by the user themselves. It's skill at doing this is what…

> Mark Zuckerberg, Facebook’s founder and chief executive, has argued that only companies as large as Facebook have the resources to fight misinformation, election meddling and harmful content. Look, they’re not a propaganda machine! I’m so thankful we have them to “fight” against “misinformation”. I read that and my blood began to boil. Evil is the perfect description of such disgusting, deceitful pandering.

We should stop using the term misinformation and call it untruth. This deobfuscates what’s really happening, which is that:

Extreme wealth and power has caused some self-appointed Deciders of Truth to band together and decide that anyone who does not pledge allegiance to anything they decide is true will be cast out of society as much as practically possible.

I remember reading Plato’s The Republic when I was young and coming away with the impression that arriving at the nature of truth was very complicated and nuanced. Apparently these tech CEOs and their buddies in government have decided to simplify everything for us proles.

Re: As a whistleblower prepares to speak out, what can be done to rein in Facebook?

#34

Post by mikro2nd »

Nextgrid wrote: post #15
LurkingPenguin wrote: post #3

Odd that "Stop using Facebook and products it owns" wasn't listed. While I understand that at this point it will probably take some regulatory action to fully deal with Facebook and its abuses, there's a huge cognitive dissonance among many people when it comes to Facebook. Lots of the people who complain about how evil the company's behavior is use the company's products frequently. Lots of criticism of Facebook is…

If Facebook wasn't behaving anti-competitively by preventing interoperability this might work, but as of right now an individual may not always have a choice in using Facebook. A lot of businesses, social clubs, schools/daycare centers, etc use Facebook as their primary online presence. Your option is to either sign up or not participate.

In all such cases (and there certainly are a few) I decline to participate. Yes, Virginia, it really is just that simple.

Re: As a whistleblower prepares to speak out, what can be done to rein in Facebook?

#35

Post by tomjen3 »

jqpabc123 wrote: post #2

Facebook is primarily a propaganda organization. It's main objective is to influence, manipulate and subvert the user's judgment and convince them to buy something --- be it physical product or ideology. To further this objective, it has developed an incredibly detailed psychological profile of each individual user using deeply personal info willing surrendered by the user themselves. It's skill at doing this is what…

Its main goal is to create more engagement so Zuck can sell more ads. Turning an AI out with the goal of maximizing engagement creates a machine as you described.

Re: As a whistleblower prepares to speak out, what can be done to rein in Facebook?

#36

Post by cratermoon »

cletus wrote: post #14

Calls for breaking up companies make great headlines for politicians but let's look at the history and why this was necessary as a solution to antitrust. The textbook case for the Sherman Act was Standard Oil. Built up by Rockefeller in the late 19th century, Standard Oil came to effectively control the extraction, refining, distribution and sale of kerosene (in particular). This is when oil pipelines began, interest…

What about AT&T?

This just in: Ex-FB employee says Amazon, not FB, is the problem.

¿Por que no los dos?

Re: As a whistleblower prepares to speak out, what can be done to rein in Facebook?

#37

Post by ryandrake »

Nextgrid wrote: post #15
LurkingPenguin wrote: post #3

Odd that "Stop using Facebook and products it owns" wasn't listed. While I understand that at this point it will probably take some regulatory action to fully deal with Facebook and its abuses, there's a huge cognitive dissonance among many people when it comes to Facebook. Lots of the people who complain about how evil the company's behavior is use the company's products frequently. Lots of criticism of Facebook is…

If Facebook wasn't behaving anti-competitively by preventing interoperability this might work, but as of right now an individual may not always have a choice in using Facebook. A lot of businesses, social clubs, schools/daycare centers, etc use Facebook as their primary online presence. Your option is to either sign up or not participate.

1. Don't participate

2. Communicate with the business through some other means (all local businesses I deal with have a phone), and if they don't provide one, then stop doing business there, too, and find a way to tell them why.

3. If your friends won't communicate with you simply because you won't use a Facebook-owned communication channel, then I have bad news for you: They might not really be great friends.

Sorry to be rude, but this idea that "you don't have a choice to use Facebook properties" is ridiculous. We all have a choice. I haven't used Facebook for close to 10 years now, and I never signed up for any of their other properties like Instagram and WhatsApp. I had an Oculus and stopped using it when the Facebook purchase happened. You do have a choice.

Re: As a whistleblower prepares to speak out, what can be done to rein in Facebook?

#38

Post by katbyte »

spectramax wrote: post #9
jqpabc123 wrote: post #2

Facebook is primarily a propaganda organization. It's main objective is to influence, manipulate and subvert the user's judgment and convince them to buy something --- be it physical product or ideology. To further this objective, it has developed an incredibly detailed psychological profile of each individual user using deeply personal info willing surrendered by the user themselves. It's skill at doing this is what…

I’d say Twitter has done more damage to the society than FB. Twitter is a pure outrage machine. I might be in the minority but Instagram is still awesome. It’s gotten more ads but most of them are quite interesting. I’ve found made in USA goods from IG ads like this: https://psudo.com/

As far as I know Twitter had not been responsible for ethnic cleansing mole times in multiple countries not helping dictators stay in power: https://www.iheart.com/podcast/105-behind-the-bastards-29236...

Re: As a whistleblower prepares to speak out, what can be done to rein in Facebook?

#40

Post by spectramax »

katbyte wrote: post #38
spectramax wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’d say Twitter has done more damage to the society than FB. Twitter is a pure outrage machine. I might be in the minority but Instagram is still awesome. It’s gotten more ads but most of them are quite interesting. I’ve found made in USA goods from IG ads like this: https://psudo.com/

As far as I know Twitter had not been responsible for ethnic cleansing mole times in multiple countries not helping dictators stay in power: https://www.iheart.com/podcast/105-behind-the-bastards-29236...

Here is Twitter CEO promoting a dictatorship as a place to go for meditation: https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2018/12/09/latest-...
Post reply on HN