31–40 of 133 posts
Earlier quoted context omitted.
Sources: Bethany Allen-Ebrahimian, Darren Byler, and Adrian Zenz. This should be hilarious to anyone who has been scrutinizing the Xinjiang narratives closely.
This should be hilarious to anyone who has been scrutinizing the Xinjiang narratives closely. "Hilarious" is not the reaction that comes to mind.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
US, Germany, Russia, Brazil, China, India, etc. The truth is that giving convicted prisoners opportunities to work is probably a big net positive. I'm sure plenty of them would work for pennies rather than rot in a cell. The root of the problem is if there is injustice in sentencing or coercive work conditions. Not the work itself. But that requires far more investigation to establish than pearl-clutching about the u…
I think they should be able to work if they want. I just don't want private entities profiting off prisoners our taxes house.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
> The root of the problem is if there is injustice in sentencing or coercive work conditions. Not the work itself. lol what? they're in a cage guarded by men with guns. what about that could possibly be anything other than "coercive?"
"Coercitive" would be something like "you make N license plate a day or don't get food". "If you accept to do non-mandatory work in exchange of money/reduced sentence" it will be your choice.
> Most recently, the apparel world has been roiled by revelations that cotton from Xinjiang, in China, is being grown and processed using forced labour. The scandal...prompted sanctions and restrictions in the west on imports made of Xinjiang cotton. This is super weird because the US _also_ still uses forced prison labor to pick cotton.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
US, Germany, Russia, Brazil, China, India, etc. The truth is that giving convicted prisoners opportunities to work is probably a big net positive. I'm sure plenty of them would work for pennies rather than rot in a cell. The root of the problem is if there is injustice in sentencing or coercive work conditions. Not the work itself. But that requires far more investigation to establish than pearl-clutching about the u…
I think they should be able to work if they want. I just don't want private entities profiting off prisoners our taxes house.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
> than pearl-clutching about the universal practice of "forced labor". So it's because everyone does it that it's "ok", then? Or because you think it's better than "rotting in a cell"? Whatever man. The issue is that the labour is _forced_. Give prisoners a choice to work or not and pay them, at market value, for their work. If you're against choice and pay for prisoners you really shouldn't be embarrassed to just go…
The allegation that Xinjiang has prisons and are allowing prisoners to work is almost certainly true. Like virtually every other major economy. The allegation that the Xinjiang prisoners are actually innocent people being ethnically/religiously cleansed and forced into slavery has extremely little basis in reality, relying completely on claims from a tiny, unaccountable clique of Washington DC based ideologues (Zenz,…
Earlier quoted context omitted.
One source? There are multiple sources, including eyewitness accounts, reports from Chinese and Uyghur exiles, western experts, and even satellite imagery: "The findings of this research contradict Chinese officials' claims that all 'trainees' from so-called vocational training [centers] had 'graduated' by late 2019," report author Nathan Ruser wrote. "Instead, available evidence suggests that many extrajudicial deta…
Okay, so far you've linked Adrian Zenz and Raytheon-mouthpiece ASPI. Is it really so much to ask for a source that doesn't have an obvious and massive Conflict of Interest in destabilizing China?
If only you would apply what you demand of others to your own brazen statements.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
Just over a year ago, at least two textile and fiber watchdogs faced scrutiny for their links to the Xinjiang Production and Construction Corps (XPCC), a quasi-military organization that the U.S. government sanctioned in 2020 due to its role in operating mass internment camps and using forced labor in cotton fields. https://www.axios.com/global-textile-watchdogs-struggled-in-...
Sources: Bethany Allen-Ebrahimian, Darren Byler, and Adrian Zenz. This should be hilarious to anyone who has been scrutinizing the Xinjiang narratives closely.
> Most recently, the apparel world has been roiled by revelations that cotton from Xinjiang, in China, is being grown and processed using forced labour. The scandal...prompted sanctions and restrictions in the west on imports made of Xinjiang cotton. This is super weird because the US _also_ still uses forced prison labor to pick cotton.
Not just cotton. Fighting fires. Making License plates. Doing laundry. The difference is U.S. prisoners are convicted felons. Many volunteer for these jobs, such as the firefighters in California. Others are paid a small wage for their work or get reduced sentences. In China, it's members of specific minority groups such as Uyghurs who are singled out and put into concentration camps ... not because of what they have…
FTFY.
> Many volunteer for these jobs
True, because the alternative is being locked in your cell 23 hours per day.
In any case, using slave labor for profit is morally abhorrent. It creates very negative societal incentives, and it allows keeping the overall labor rate lower. I'd happily fight fires in CA or elsewhere, if the price is right.
> Most recently, the apparel world has been roiled by revelations that cotton from Xinjiang, in China, is being grown and processed using forced labour. The scandal...prompted sanctions and restrictions in the west on imports made of Xinjiang cotton. This is super weird because the US _also_ still uses forced prison labor to pick cotton.
That's unfortunate. However, folks in the US prison system have been convicted of crimes.
Regardless of what the laws are, I believe that prison labor is a bad practice with big ethical issues—it incentives incarceration as a means to procure cheap/free labor that can be used to turn a profit for those in power.
EDIT: To clarify: I don't think giving prisoners an option to work is a bad thing, but nobody should be allowed to profit off of such labor other than the prisoner themselves. Anything else tends to lead towards undesirable incentives and outcomes.