If AT&T Had Managed the Phone Business Like Google • Hacker News Board

Re: If AT&T Had Managed the Phone Business Like Google

#31

Post by robertlagrant » Fri, Sep 24, 2021, 9:10 AM UTC

Jensson wrote: post #23

Every search engine uses ads to monetize itself. A search engine you paid for wouldn't get enough users to pay for itself, since the cost of indexing the internet is huge. Youtube is the same deal, there are more ads when watching cable TV you paid for than watching youtube. You can't say that Google made the ad situation worse there either. So Google isn't pushing ads into new areas, Google is just running a normal…

This is all true, except for the user data part. If Google were a billboard company that tried hard to get people to look at its billboard, that's fine. If they're constantly observing by scanning emails, calendars, browsing and location data that's another.

Re: If AT&T Had Managed the Phone Business Like Google

#32

Post by zxcvbn4038 » Fri, Sep 24, 2021, 9:14 AM UTC

yftsui wrote: post #26

paxys wrote: post #17

I don't think people realize just how expensive and congested these networks were back in the day. Phone calls cost what they did because capacity was a real constraint. It's not that they were all ethical businessmen doing a public service as the article makes them out to be (some old business tactics of AT&T, Standard Oil, American Tobacco etc. would make the most ruthless big tech exec of today blush). They simply…

Fiber is the most amazing invention from last century. Want to see what it was like in the 00s? Visit Yellowstone and stay inside for a night, during busy hours even phone calls are prioritized.

I remember a business trip to NYC in the early ‘90s, I got settled and dialed in to do some work, and after thirty minutes I started getting visits every ten minutes from the receptionist, concierge, and a maintenance worker who came as a group to “fix” my off the hook phone. This went on for several hours before they gave up. They never admitted it but I suspect the hotel only had 2-3 phone lines. Not soon after when I moved there I remember initially it cost ten cents each to make a local call.

Everything in NYC at the time was cash-only and metered. No refills on drinks. Ketchup packs were are a quarter each. I never saw so many hands out except for India. The people were much nicer in India, in NYC it was more your classic Klingon style “Buy something or die!”

Re: If AT&T Had Managed the Phone Business Like Google

#33

Post by lelanthran » Fri, Sep 24, 2021, 9:16 AM UTC

Jensson wrote: post #25

vortico wrote: post #15

This is the best story I've read all week. More non-techy people should at least know how Google, Apple, Facebook, and Microsoft work (i.e. their business models), and this is a start to put it in perspective for people who don't normally care about these things.

People know that companies shows them ads to make money, do you really think they are that stupid?

> People know that companies shows them ads to make money, do you really think they are that stupid?

Well, the majority think that they are the customers (of Google, FB, etc), so ... maybe?

Re: If AT&T Had Managed the Phone Business Like Google

#34

Post by zxcvbn4038 » Fri, Sep 24, 2021, 9:32 AM UTC

Nevermark wrote: post #3

catchmeifyoucan wrote: post #2

Fun read! Drawing parallels of today’s world with the past. In some ways phonebooks of the past aren’t too different than the modern search engine. Hundreds of numbers (urls), a central lookup, and prominent placement to get your business ranked ahead of millions of others. As long as we have phone books, the person who took the time to write it all will always win.

One of the competitive dynamics of phone books was that businesses were essentially extorted to buy advertising in any phone book whose publisher had the scale to give everyone in your town a copy. If you didn't buy advertising in every one of N phone books, you lost roughly 1/N sales for each book you failed to advertise in. More than one empire was built by introducing new phonebook after phonebook to town after to…

I just realized it has been so many years since I’ve seen a phone book. Or phone numbers without area codes.

Re: If AT&T Had Managed the Phone Business Like Google

#35

Post by wombatmobile » Fri, Sep 24, 2021, 9:49 AM UTC

Whatever happened to google's founders, Page and Brin?

Did they make any public comment when google dropped the moniker "Don't be evil"?

Have they spoken publicly in favour or against "surveillance capitalism" or whatever you want to call the business model, as practised by google contemporaneously?

Re: If AT&T Had Managed the Phone Business Like Google

#36

Post by Jensson » Fri, Sep 24, 2021, 10:01 AM UTC

robertlagrant wrote: post #31

Jensson wrote: post #23

Every search engine uses ads to monetize itself. A search engine you paid for wouldn't get enough users to pay for itself, since the cost of indexing the internet is huge. Youtube is the same deal, there are more ads when watching cable TV you paid for than watching youtube. You can't say that Google made the ad situation worse there either. So Google isn't pushing ads into new areas, Google is just running a normal…

This is all true, except for the user data part. If Google were a billboard company that tried hard to get people to look at its billboard, that's fine. If they're constantly observing by scanning emails, calendars, browsing and location data that's another.

Data collection is standard procedure as well. Most ISP's keeps a record of every website you visit, most net providers keeps a record of all locations your phone has visited etc. Only difference is that most companies just sells these to some data broker like Equifax or similar while Google uses it for their own purposes.

Re: If AT&T Had Managed the Phone Business Like Google

#37

Post by 7773777 » Fri, Sep 24, 2021, 10:21 AM UTC

Kinda brilliant actually - convincing the AT&T guys of yore to give away everything for free so you can inject ads into a phone call. Yeah, that would certainly be met with disbelief, anyway I gotta go "skip some ads" on YouTube I'll talk to you later.

Re: If AT&T Had Managed the Phone Business Like Google

#38

Post by Gunax » Fri, Sep 24, 2021, 10:36 AM UTC

jay_kyburz wrote: post #18

This is not a good analogy at all for so many reasons. Here is something closer. Google went to University and read all books and created the worlds largest filing cabinet with an amazing index of the worlds information. They decided to allow other students to use the index to help track down the information they need for their assignment. They ask Google, where do I find information about X and Google tells them the…

I think the reference is to gmail, where Google famously placed ads based on the email's content and not search.

Re: If AT&T Had Managed the Phone Business Like Google

#39

Post by cblconfederate » Fri, Sep 24, 2021, 10:36 AM UTC

Imagine where the world would be if ATT had taken that advice, everyone in the world having free communications so much earlier.

The problem with google is not advertising itself, but the heavy dominance they have on the advertising industry

Re: If AT&T Had Managed the Phone Business Like Google

#40

Post by robertlagrant » Fri, Sep 24, 2021, 10:44 AM UTC

Jensson wrote: post #36

robertlagrant wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is all true, except for the user data part. If Google were a billboard company that tried hard to get people to look at its billboard, that's fine. If they're constantly observing by scanning emails, calendars, browsing and location data that's another.

Data collection is standard procedure as well. Most ISP's keeps a record of every website you visit, most net providers keeps a record of all locations your phone has visited etc. Only difference is that most companies just sells these to some data broker like Equifax or similar while Google uses it for their own purposes.

Not for billboard companies.