Revolt of the Delivery Workers • Hacker News Board

Re: Revolt of the Delivery Workers

#31

Post by eru » Mon, Sep 20, 2021, 9:21 AM UTC

pjc50 wrote: post #13

zelos wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a good idea, although this: "He reported both to the police, but the cases went nowhere, an experience common enough that many workers have concluded calling 911 is a waste of time." Is so frustrating. The theft of thousands of dollars worth of equipment with the threat of violence in a known location and the police aren't interested?

Yes? Especially if it's a bike. Police are incredibly bad at handling low-level property crime.

Not in all jurisdictions.

My adopted home of Singapore seems to handle this really well.

There's always stories of people leaving there wallets and phones to reserve tables at the food court. Without any issue.

Re: Revolt of the Delivery Workers

#32

Post by jacquesm » Mon, Sep 20, 2021, 9:22 AM UTC

michaelmrose wrote: post #24

praptak wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't believe you can truly make the bike inoperable. Yes, you can make its electronics inoperable but I don't believe you can feasibly make its battery, engine or the mechanics inoperable. I mean theoretically you could, but not in a safe way.

Bike thieves aren't bike mechanics and modern hardware has chips that could fail to perform their task or even brick themselves. It could fail to charge or stop charging at 10% it could spin up the motor but inadequately. It could appear to start but gradually turn off for no reason 10 minutes later leaving it in all instances a safe expensive human powered bike. It could broadcast I'm a stolen bike with cords with t…

E-bike theft in general is a problem, and battery theft as well.

Re: Revolt of the Delivery Workers

#33

Post by eru » Mon, Sep 20, 2021, 9:23 AM UTC

michaelmrose wrote: post #7

These workers by and large aren't carrying money worth stealing they are being robbed of expensive e-bikes. If these bikes were configured to become inoperable if they couldn't either phone home or talk to the users device then there would be no point in stealing them because nobody would buy them. The end user could authorize their own new devices unless they lost access to both devices and info needed to do so and…

> The other ridiculous conditions are solved by making them threat their employees as employees and pay them a minimum wage for time spent including spent idling + millage.

Compare https://www.idiosyncraticwhisk.com/2019/10/california-wants-... and https://www.idiosyncraticwhisk.com/2019/05/uber-and-wages-in...

Basically, there's not much binding riders to a specific delivery app. Many cities have multiple competing apps that riders relatively easily switch between.

Re: Revolt of the Delivery Workers

#34

Post by eru » Mon, Sep 20, 2021, 9:27 AM UTC

michaelscott wrote: post #11

michaelmrose wrote: post #7

These workers by and large aren't carrying money worth stealing they are being robbed of expensive e-bikes. If these bikes were configured to become inoperable if they couldn't either phone home or talk to the users device then there would be no point in stealing them because nobody would buy them. The end user could authorize their own new devices unless they lost access to both devices and info needed to do so and…

There are a number of reasons this wouldn't work, especially once the thieves have figured this out. They'll then be incentivised to stop the bike for both the phone and the bike, and before you as the driver were able to remote block both items would have been bricked by the thieves. It's easy to take apart an electric bike, especially the ones that have been customised. Agreed with the treating of employees properl…

It doesn't have to work 100%. If it works well enough, it might shift things enough at the margin to alleviate the problem.

You just need to make stealing the bike annoying enough for would-be thieves to find something better to do with their time.

(Compare how flimsy most people's front door locks are, yet, they still help compared to no lock.)

Re: Revolt of the Delivery Workers

#35

Post by hutzlibu » Mon, Sep 20, 2021, 9:27 AM UTC

yetihehe wrote: post #27

sbacic wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So let me get this straight - it's a bad deal for the restaurants, it's an increasingly bad deal for the deliverymen and it depends on VCs subsidizing it to even work? How did something like this even get funded? I mean, I could understand if the development costs were being funded by VC money, but actual deliveries? Even if one company were to actually dominate the market, it would still need to continue subsidizing…

> How did something like this even get funded? I believe that it's "too much money sloshing around".

And this is so weird. There are so many awesome projects struggling for funding and then there is "too much money sloshing around".

Re: Revolt of the Delivery Workers

#36

Post by danuker » Mon, Sep 20, 2021, 9:29 AM UTC

clydethefrog wrote: post #4

Paraphrasing an observation I heard in a podcast some weeks ago: We were promised little robot butlers in the scifi we read as kids, but what we got was human servants that act like robots.

I suppose a step towards automating the jobs is to break them down into manageable, replaceable pieces.

For example, there have appeared automated boxes for recipients to pick up packages.

Re: Revolt of the Delivery Workers

#37

Post by sega_sai » Mon, Sep 20, 2021, 9:30 AM UTC

It is pretty horrific that we live in a society where such stories are considered okay. You can replace the bikes by something else and could easily believe that what is described is Dickens's story about 19th century London.

Re: Revolt of the Delivery Workers

#38

Post by lixtra » Mon, Sep 20, 2021, 9:37 AM UTC

hollerith wrote: post #5

There is no revolt, is there?

Vigilantism is a form of revolt. After the state had failed them.

Re: Revolt of the Delivery Workers

#39

Post by jpalomaki » Mon, Sep 20, 2021, 9:39 AM UTC

sbacic wrote: post #26

jsmith99 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because it would not be competitive? Most of these apps are loss making. An open source solution wouldn't involve VCs subsidising your deliveries.

So let me get this straight - it's a bad deal for the restaurants, it's an increasingly bad deal for the deliverymen and it depends on VCs subsidizing it to even work? How did something like this even get funded? I mean, I could understand if the development costs were being funded by VC money, but actual deliveries? Even if one company were to actually dominate the market, it would still need to continue subsidizing…

Some people must believe this model can be made to work.

I think it might happen via ghost kitchens. Distributed food preparation and couriers picking from small restaurants is inefficient. Larger kitchens, optimized for quick pickups, same people preparing food under many different brands.

Maybe one can also rethink how the apps work, to bring bit more efficiency (if you control the larger part of the production chain). Most of the time when using these apps I'm hungry and I just want to eat. I would be actually quite happy, if the app could provide some decent recommendations on what could be delivered quickly.

Re: Revolt of the Delivery Workers

#40

Post by jakelazaroff » Mon, Sep 20, 2021, 9:45 AM UTC

> The company has been sued multiple times for worker misclassification, tip theft, and other infractions. It settled three times, avoiding a ruling that could torpedo its business model, and another case is currently in arbitration.

We gotta find some way to stop companies from repeatedly settling the same claims to avoid a ruling against them. The system is set up so they can pay to sweep individual cases under the rug while maintaining the systemic problem.