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EU Funding for Developer Tools for the Decentralized Web

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31–40 of 109 posts

Re: EU Funding for Developer Tools for the Decentralized Web

#31
post #13

IPFS is pretty awesome, and the ideas it builds upon like a Merkle tree DAG are really cool. I love the idea of DApps or Decentralized apps. I've played with some cool projects like MetaMask etc. But I really don't like the idea that all (most?) DApps are based on Ethereum and require huge amounts of Gas to run. Can't we have DApps without Blockchain/Ethereum? I know IPFS doesn't use Ethereum, and neither do things l…

I guess http://gun.js.org/ goes into that direction.

Re: EU Funding for Developer Tools for the Decentralized Web

#32
post #13

IPFS is pretty awesome, and the ideas it builds upon like a Merkle tree DAG are really cool. I love the idea of DApps or Decentralized apps. I've played with some cool projects like MetaMask etc. But I really don't like the idea that all (most?) DApps are based on Ethereum and require huge amounts of Gas to run. Can't we have DApps without Blockchain/Ethereum? I know IPFS doesn't use Ethereum, and neither do things l…

>But I really don't like the idea that all (most?) DApps are based on Ethereum and require huge amounts of Gas to run. Can't we have DApps without Blockchain/Ethereum? Previous generation dapps were mostly on Ethereum because it was the only real solution available. But the ecosystem is maturing, there are chains that consume so little gas it's effectively a negligible cost, and more and more dapps are making use of…

>there are chains that consume so little gas it's effectively a negligible cost, and more and more dapps are making use of them

Can you give some examples? How far along is the development?

Re: EU Funding for Developer Tools for the Decentralized Web

#33
post #19
post #13

IPFS is pretty awesome, and the ideas it builds upon like a Merkle tree DAG are really cool. I love the idea of DApps or Decentralized apps. I've played with some cool projects like MetaMask etc. But I really don't like the idea that all (most?) DApps are based on Ethereum and require huge amounts of Gas to run. Can't we have DApps without Blockchain/Ethereum? I know IPFS doesn't use Ethereum, and neither do things l…

It is hard to get away from a gas based system because of spam and resource limitations. Regarding the expensiveness there are a lot of new technologies rolling out today such as optimistic rollups(arbitrum/optimism) and zkrollups(dydx,zksync) that allow for cheaper dapps to run. Then there is also things like Avalanche or Solana that are completely separate chains with different decentralization trade offs that allo…

> It is hard to get away from a gas based system because of spam and resource limitations.

I went to a Hyperledger workshop just to get a more objective opinion on it.

All the demo functions were showing us how it was possible to threads and put the state on an internal blockchain, but that all nodes had to run the threaded functions we wrote.

hmmmm, why is this taking so long, oh because everyone in the class was spamming the nodes with arbitrary executions! with no anti-spam resource it was as actually dumb as the theory suggested.

that said, I've come to accept that the market can bear many things in the distributed ledger space, so even if other theoretical solutions can make participants cooperate, an out of the box solution is here that the world is selling so hard that it is easy to sell itself.

Re: EU Funding for Developer Tools for the Decentralized Web

#34
post #21
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please relax. You don't have to leave your politics out of it, but you can't just start slinging it around belligerently. Stick to context. Be polite.

Belligerently? He is just rising a point. Government “innovation” subsidies move a lot of money into shinny “new” ideas, but in EU there’s no thought about how to create innovation itself. Just as an example, a friend of mine roasts coffee for a living. He is considering closing shop, because he is succeeding too much. At the point he is, he’ll be required to register as a business, which in Spain means he will have…

> but in EU there’s no thought about how to create innovation itself.

You mean "innovation" like the predatory monopolies that tend to form in "business friendly" jurisdictions?

Just a random example because I had the page open:

https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2021/09/big-isps-fight-t...

So much innovation...

Edit: the EU does have a problem with barriers to entry when starting a new business without gobs of funding, but the US solution is not a good answer to that.

Re: EU Funding for Developer Tools for the Decentralized Web

#35

Of all the institutions to promote a uncensorable web it is the EU?! Talking about Gaslighting. Who knows, it could be a gentle attempt at keeping talent from leaving, or FOMO because every other important nation is doing crypto-stuff and lastly, and naturally, the sheer incompetence of this overextended bureaucracy where one tentacle doesn't know what the other tentacles want to ban

>where one tentacle doesn't know what the other tentacles want to ban

William: "I'm sure we can all pull together, sir."

Vetinari: "Oh, I do hope not. Pulling together is the aim of despotism and tyranny. Free men pull in all kinds of directions.”

― Terry Pratchett, The Truth

Re: EU Funding for Developer Tools for the Decentralized Web

#36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>But I really don't like the idea that all (most?) DApps are based on Ethereum and require huge amounts of Gas to run. Can't we have DApps without Blockchain/Ethereum? Previous generation dapps were mostly on Ethereum because it was the only real solution available. But the ecosystem is maturing, there are chains that consume so little gas it's effectively a negligible cost, and more and more dapps are making use of…

>there are chains that consume so little gas it's effectively a negligible cost, and more and more dapps are making use of them Can you give some examples? How far along is the development?

It’s important to note that these chains that are cheaper to use have to make trade offs to enable that. The trade off they choose is generally to be more centralized. A better approach over using a new “cheap” blockchain is to use a Rollup network on top of a decentralized blockchain.

Rollups inherit the security of the blockchain they are based on, and a user can always leave the rollup network if they become censored.

The downside of current Optimistic Rollup networks is that many still have centralized points of control in place (such as arbitrary contract upgrades), but those are expected to be removed in the next few months for at least one of them.

Zero-Knowledge rollups are also coming out and have key advantages over Optimistic Rollups, including much lower costs.

Re: EU Funding for Developer Tools for the Decentralized Web

#37
post #22

One thing "The EU" can do is provide demand. If they want to promote ethereum, IPFS, or WebRTC... use them for their activities in an open way. One real difficulty here is the ability of open systems people to communicate, lobby, advocate with governments. The reps, staffers and ministerial professionals aren't that numerous, specialized or inventive... usually. They basically work off ideas, prototype plans and such…

promote ethereum? you mean promote speculators with tax payer money? so they can sell their ETH and make ton of profit? remove ethereum from your post, and i 100% agree with you the fact that you included ethereum alongside IPFS and WebRTC is very suspicious i don't believe in "decentralized web" if people wants it solely to make profit from 'trading' aka speculating "decentralized coins" with fiat currency before an…

Those are the article's examples, not mine.

Re: EU Funding for Developer Tools for the Decentralized Web

#38
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Belligerently? He is just rising a point. Government “innovation” subsidies move a lot of money into shinny “new” ideas, but in EU there’s no thought about how to create innovation itself. Just as an example, a friend of mine roasts coffee for a living. He is considering closing shop, because he is succeeding too much. At the point he is, he’ll be required to register as a business, which in Spain means he will have…

Do you realize you are saying that companies shouldn't pay any taxes?

not really, you can run the business on your name and pay personal income taxes.

Avoiding to create a separate entity which will carry additional compliance and tax costs is something else altogether, and some governments just make it too onerous

Re: EU Funding for Developer Tools for the Decentralized Web

#39

It's disappointing to see this project, like many other decentralized web projects, has tunnel vision with respect to "cool technologies". The real distributed web is not non-web protocols, blockchains, or the like. The real distributed web is THE WEB HTTP servers and every single individual running their own web server to host their content (and then syndicate on whatever walled gardens are most profitable after). C…

Thank you for stating this. I absolutely agree with you, and this is what we are trying to do with the Deuxfleurs collective which is also getting funded by the EU to work on our project Garage [0, 1]. We are working on making self-hosting easier, and also more reliable, by exploiting geographical redundancy [2]. We will use the grant money mostly to develop Garage, our self-hosted data server (an object store implementing the S3 protocol, and soon also an email inbox server with IMAP access). We are also working on automating opening ports on your router to get around NAT (with our project DiploNAT [3]), and on facilitating distributed deployments with the Nomad orchestrator. Our vision is to help technical users set up local self-hosting collectives by setting up servers at three or four geographical locations for redundancy, which can then be used by their friends, neighbors, etc. We are of course very keen on deploying federated protocols such as Matrix to link all of these communities together.

[0] https://garagehq.deuxfleurs.fr

[1] https://git.deuxfleurs.fr/Deuxfleurs/infrastructure

[2] https://git.deuxfleurs.fr/Deuxfleurs/garage/src/branch/main/...

[3] https://git.deuxfleurs.fr/Deuxfleurs/diplonat

Not linking our main website because it's in French.

Re: EU Funding for Developer Tools for the Decentralized Web

#40
post #13

IPFS is pretty awesome, and the ideas it builds upon like a Merkle tree DAG are really cool. I love the idea of DApps or Decentralized apps. I've played with some cool projects like MetaMask etc. But I really don't like the idea that all (most?) DApps are based on Ethereum and require huge amounts of Gas to run. Can't we have DApps without Blockchain/Ethereum? I know IPFS doesn't use Ethereum, and neither do things l…

Not looking to get into a crypto-war with anyone, but I suggest looking at Cardano which just launched smart contracts. They have much more reasonable gas requirements that are calculated upfront, and there’s a lot of space for innovation as they released this week. Fun reason to look into Haskell too.
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