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The Frustration with Productivity Culture

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Re: The Frustration with Productivity Culture

#31

Post by philovivero »

uselesscynicism wrote: post #10
jh0486 wrote: post #9

It's easy to have the wrong mindset around productivity. If an individual thinks that doing more always leads to better results, they're going to have a bad time. I use productivity as a tool to have __more__ personal time and reduce stress. I really think about what I'm doing and what impact it has on my day. From what I've seen, working in large corporate environments, is that people make their own productivity pri…

> There are plenty of less stressful work environments in technology that will pay someone a decent salary and will be much less demanding. There are?! Could you list some examples? I would take a pay cut for fewer responsibilities if I could stay in tech and if it didn't pay like thirty grand, which is what you will make in support. How do I transition from a high stress high pay software engineer to a medium pay lo…

I'm with you. I don't know of such a thing.

But luckily I differ from you in that I'm a type-A personality, and slow, relaxed work bothers me. I want the high-speed high-stakes atmosphere.

I recognise that I'm not a normal person in this regard, which is why I say I am lucky.

Re: The Frustration with Productivity Culture

#32

Post by bee_rider »

jh0486 wrote: post #28
gandalfgeek wrote: post #19

The problem with "productivity gurus" is that not one of them actually has any accomplishments in an actual specialized domain (other than marketing their stuff). Conversely, as I look at all the accomplished people around me, they've quietly built a mountain of expertise and achievement with cobbled systems held together by spit and glue that a productivity hustler would scoff at.

I can't say that I agree with this. There are the productivity "influencers" who say a lot of things but don't actually live it. There is a high correlation between being a productivity based person and being successful. Most of the leaders you admire are highly productive people and employ practices to increase their productivity, they're just too busy to soapbox about it.

I suspect the "influencers" and the "productivity gurus" you two are talking about are the same people. A guru is a type of teacher -- the really productive people don't have time to teach anyone other than, at best, their successors.

Re: The Frustration with Productivity Culture

#34

Post by dexwiz »

abnry wrote: post #30
Barrin92 wrote: post #16

The problem with the entire productivity culture is just how industrialized, bureaucratic and formulaic it is. You read the piece by Newport and there is Henry Ford, the assembly line, 'knowledge work', growth, and so on. Words that don't show up once: freedom, exploration, curiosity, creativity (that does show up once in quotes technically). Everything that makes life interesting is discontinuous and surprising and…

> Yet he also made contributions larger than anyone will ever do by filling up note-taking apps and tracking how much time they spent on their breakfast with a stopwatch. Part of the problem is that both the low hanging fruit has already been picked and the competition is steeper due to a wealthier society. If you can't make a societal impact the magnitude of calculus, why not time your breakfast so that the marginal…

You are so far in the trap you cannot imagine a life without it.

Re: The Frustration with Productivity Culture

#35

Post by throwaway0914v1 »

jh0486 wrote: post #9

It's easy to have the wrong mindset around productivity. If an individual thinks that doing more always leads to better results, they're going to have a bad time. I use productivity as a tool to have __more__ personal time and reduce stress. I really think about what I'm doing and what impact it has on my day. From what I've seen, working in large corporate environments, is that people make their own productivity pri…

Throwaway to avoid telling on myself, but if you know the right folks and put in a little bit of effort up front, a mid-high FAANG-type role where you do next to nothing and still make big bucks is attainable. These companies are big, and have even bigger cracks to slip into (without being put into an Amazon PIP too).

Source: Friends with several folks who’ve made this work at MS and Goog.

Re: The Frustration with Productivity Culture

#36

Post by adamisom »

abnry wrote: post #30
Barrin92 wrote: post #16

The problem with the entire productivity culture is just how industrialized, bureaucratic and formulaic it is. You read the piece by Newport and there is Henry Ford, the assembly line, 'knowledge work', growth, and so on. Words that don't show up once: freedom, exploration, curiosity, creativity (that does show up once in quotes technically). Everything that makes life interesting is discontinuous and surprising and…

> Yet he also made contributions larger than anyone will ever do by filling up note-taking apps and tracking how much time they spent on their breakfast with a stopwatch. Part of the problem is that both the low hanging fruit has already been picked and the competition is steeper due to a wealthier society. If you can't make a societal impact the magnitude of calculus, why not time your breakfast so that the marginal…

Another point overlooked in the implicit “why be 10% more efficient instead of 10x” is that we can’t all be Newtons. There is no advice to turn you into Newton, but that doesn’t make advice useless.

It’s reason to get what you can out of life, not to throw your hands up! And maybe one way to get more from life is to cut down on drudgery or do work faster so as to contribute more.

Re: The Frustration with Productivity Culture

#37

Post by spaetzleesser »

Barrin92 wrote: post #16

The problem with the entire productivity culture is just how industrialized, bureaucratic and formulaic it is. You read the piece by Newport and there is Henry Ford, the assembly line, 'knowledge work', growth, and so on. Words that don't show up once: freedom, exploration, curiosity, creativity (that does show up once in quotes technically). Everything that makes life interesting is discontinuous and surprising and…

“Newton was a genius, yet the man spent most of his life doing alchemy, trying to forecast the future with the help of the bible, and chasing dragons in the Swiss Alps, put simply, he was batshit insane”

I generally agree with your comment but this sentence doesn’t do justice to Newton. During his time alchemy, predicting things from the Bible were generally accepted. If Newton had published papers about his successes in alchemy you could call him crazy but he just probed the accepted wisdom of his time. I bet in few hundred years a lot of our current conceptions of reality will also sound crazy. That doesn’t mean that current scientists are insane. They are just trying to expand our current knowledge. Which is the same Newton did. He did all kinds of crazy looking stuff because he was curious.

Re: The Frustration with Productivity Culture

#38

Post by adamisom »

bee_rider wrote: post #32
jh0486 wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't say that I agree with this. There are the productivity "influencers" who say a lot of things but don't actually live it. There is a high correlation between being a productivity based person and being successful. Most of the leaders you admire are highly productive people and employ practices to increase their productivity, they're just too busy to soapbox about it.

I suspect the "influencers" and the "productivity gurus" you two are talking about are the same people. A guru is a type of teacher -- the really productive people don't have time to teach anyone other than, at best, their successors.

Or perhaps they leveraged their success to reduce the amount of “busy” they have so as to make time to amplify the mindset or practices that helped them, because they think that can be their biggest gift to the world.

Re: The Frustration with Productivity Culture

#39

Post by PragmaticPulp »

weq wrote: post #25
Barrin92 wrote: post #16

The problem with the entire productivity culture is just how industrialized, bureaucratic and formulaic it is. You read the piece by Newport and there is Henry Ford, the assembly line, 'knowledge work', growth, and so on. Words that don't show up once: freedom, exploration, curiosity, creativity (that does show up once in quotes technically). Everything that makes life interesting is discontinuous and surprising and…

The kings and queeens have turned into the captailists and relgious zealots who espouse ideals of productivity and growth in order to secure your obedience and trap you in debt and gives you no choice but to continue on or give up everything. By chasing the money you commit yourself playing within the confines of this system. I instead chase my passion and ive found an employeer who is happy to make those same tradeo…

> Ive switched markets/verticals from gov to private to startups in search of this balance.

Am I understanding correctly that you switched to startups to find better work/life balance?

I have to say I'm surprised by that. Usually startups have the highest demands and the fewest people to get things done. Can you expand on your experience?

Re: The Frustration with Productivity Culture

#40

Post by spaetzleesser »

gandalfgeek wrote: post #19

The problem with "productivity gurus" is that not one of them actually has any accomplishments in an actual specialized domain (other than marketing their stuff). Conversely, as I look at all the accomplished people around me, they've quietly built a mountain of expertise and achievement with cobbled systems held together by spit and glue that a productivity hustler would scoff at.

Yes. Much better to look at people who have achieved excellence in their specialty and see how they do things.
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