Why Firefox has been in decline for 12 years • Hacker News Board

Re: Why Firefox has been in decline for 12 years

#31

Post by Yoric » Sat, Sep 11, 2021, 12:09 PM UTC

lousken wrote: post #12

Idk about 12 years but I know about last two years - many companies and workers had to switch to WFH. So that means using some sort of chat&video&audio software/website. What did Firefox do to fix the compatibility e.g. with Teams? That should've been the highest priority. Instead, it took them years to get at least the GPOs right, autoupdate is the same story... so many things in corprote env were or still are PITA…

That's the vicious circle:

1. Google basically controls the web.

2. Whenever a new Web API shows up, browser vendors have to decide between implementing the standard and copying the bugs, exotic behaviors and extensions that are implemented in Chromium.

3. Websites are tested on Chromium, so they start to rely on Chromium's bugs, exotic behaviors and extensions.

4. When a website breaks in Firefox (or Safari), people claim that it's the fault of Firefox devs and switch to Chromium.

The early web got tired of this when it was Microsoft at the wheels, but it feels that few people are particularly interested in fighting the good fight these days. Much easier to blame Mozilla.

Re: Why Firefox has been in decline for 12 years

#32

Post by ipaddr » Sat, Sep 11, 2021, 12:10 PM UTC

Arech wrote: post #17

capableweb wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yup, the performance of browsers are highly dependent on their host. Firefox performs best on Linux (and beats the other browsers for Linux too), so the default on my Linux machine is Firefox. For Windows, it's Chrome and for Mac is Safari. Wish there was some syncing utility between the three of them, as switching between them has always been a bit of a hassle.

I strongly disagree regarding Windows. I use Firefox on Windows as a primary browser and occasionally Chrome, - Firefox offers much better performance even having some extensions installed while Chrome is in vanilla state. The only issue with FF for me is exactly as the other commenter said - Mozilla likes to piss off its core userbase.

I strongly disagree. I have it installed on Windows 7, Windows 10 and the performance has gone so far down in the last few years I've had to switch to chrome.

Re: Why Firefox has been in decline for 12 years

#33

Post by wopwops » Sat, Sep 11, 2021, 12:11 PM UTC

I nearly stopped using it with the terrible color changes to the tabs (no contrast) in v92. I mean, I thought, this is finally the last straw. But I found that I could customize some colors, especially the active tab, with an add on called Firefox Color.

https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/firefox-color...

Maybe it will help someone who has the same problem.

I really miss the old and customizable Firefox.

Re: Why Firefox has been in decline for 12 years

#34

Post by TeMPOraL » Sat, Sep 11, 2021, 12:11 PM UTC

bjt2n3904 wrote: post #28

pteraspidomorph wrote: post #6

I agree with this opinion piece. Firefox is a product strangely hostile to its core userbase. It's almost like they've been deliberately trying to sabotage themselves for years. I don't use it because I approve of all their stupid pigheaded UI choices, I use it because it has been the least bad option despite those choices. That might not go on for much longer, though.

I mean, isn't this a bit like saying, "I left Windows for Ubuntu because of the invasive privacy concerns I had... But man Unity is terrible, I'm going back to Windows!" If privacy is the ultimate concern, I can suffer usability. I think the real issue is we've stopped advocating for privacy loudly and publicly. All the users know is convenience.

But the privacy isn't the ultimate concern for everyone, so perhaps it isn't one for GP. It isn't for me. I stick to Firefox because of combination of being best at privacy and least shitty overall, but I'm by no means happy. I'm very much unhappy about the mobile version - their recent (~year ago?) UI revamp turned a perfectly good browser into a bloated piece of garbage, that gets slower and more annoying to use over time. The only reason I use it instead of Chrome is because I can install an ad blocker in it.

Re: Why Firefox has been in decline for 12 years

#35

Post by aero-glide2 » Sat, Sep 11, 2021, 12:11 PM UTC

clement_b wrote: post #26

I use both Chrome (for work) and Firefox (personal) on Windows. Beyond a few specifics, I often can't remember which I am using. There might be many differences under the hood, but in a regular usage Firefox is really damn good. Even on Google's properties. I also use Firefox exclusively on mobile, and same. At the end of the day, they are two very mature, slightly different executions of the same concept. I get the…

In desktop, there is barely any difference now (Chrome's save as pdf feature is more accurate with tables). In mobile however, Chrome seems noticeably faster.

Re: Why Firefox has been in decline for 12 years

#36

Post by ignoramous » Sat, Sep 11, 2021, 12:11 PM UTC

yosamino wrote: post #8

I use Firefox exclusively, but the only thing I can think of to write in this box are all the unneccessary frustrations they are putting me through. The list is long . Item one: Why does Mozilla have so many ways to file bugs* ? Which is a pity, because, besides the fact that Chrome has almost all of the marketshare, they also basically own Mozilla financially (is this still correct ?) and technologically Firefox use…

> ...technologically Firefox uses Skia and Harfbuzz for rendering, both heavily dependent on Google.

IIRC, Google Chrome (for Windows) was essentially built by engineers hired from Mozilla back in 2005/6? How tables turn.

Re: Why Firefox has been in decline for 12 years

#37

Post by junon » Sat, Sep 11, 2021, 12:13 PM UTC

znpy wrote: post #24

greypowerOz wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i use ffox on android because (for some reason) it's the only one I'm aware of that has ublock origin addon...( happy to be proven wrong :) I also used to use reader mode once in a while...

Firefox on Android used to just freeze for me. I'm happily on brave mobile, which does block ads.

... and replaces them with more ads directly in the user interface (e.g. the new tab screen).

Re: Why Firefox has been in decline for 12 years

#38

Post by greatgib » Sat, Sep 11, 2021, 12:13 PM UTC

Really great piece this article.

Very good idea to have mapped the rants that have accumulated over time to the historical evolution of Firefox.

It is often that you hear that a minority of complainers are just adverse to change and that the majority agree with the stupid changes. But, in fact, the majority of person will disagree in silence and just switch to alternative solutions without a vocal complaint.

So, it is important to listen to vocal complainers, even in minority, because most of the time they are your canaries in coal mines. The one in front of new problems, ready to give some of their time and energy to save you.

An additional point not mentioned in the article is the general lost confidence with the Mozilla organisation that more and more looks like to use the Firefox cash cow to fund useless random activities and insipid Management.

Re: Why Firefox has been in decline for 12 years

#39

Post by BoumTAC » Sat, Sep 11, 2021, 12:13 PM UTC

Because they are always super late. It's 2021 and we still don't have form and CB auto completion.

It's been in chrome for more than 10 years already. It's such a basic feature, you earn a lot of time at not filling your address every time and even more with your card number you always forgot the number.

A few month ago they finally add the tab feature for directly researching in a site except it still a lot worse user friendly than chrome and it worked on a few website only

Re: Why Firefox has been in decline for 12 years

#40

Post by pwdisswordfish8 » Sat, Sep 11, 2021, 12:13 PM UTC

> Then Google decided to make the tabs on top standard for its Chrome browser, which was designed for mobile devices not desktops. On a smartphone it may make sense, as there isn’t room for a full desktop style menu layout. On a desktop it is counterintuitive and breaks workflow with all other programs.

Funnily enough, moving tabs to the top is actually one of the few UI changes I actually agree with and find more logical. Since the address bar and navigation buttons only control the active tab, they logically belong ‘inside’ the tab: switching to a different tab should also switch to a ‘different’ address bar and buttons. (Internally they may be the same object, but that’s just an implementation detail.)