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Are we on the road to civilisation collapse? (2019)

bbc.com

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Re: Are we on the road to civilisation collapse? (2019)

#31

Post by noahtallen »

branko_d wrote: post #16
no_wizard wrote: post #8

Perhaps not entire civilization collapse, pending nuclear arsenals unleashed, but I think we are edging ever closer to massive social upheaval, what shape of this I am unsure about. To quote an adjacent article that was mentioned in this one: How Western Civilization Could Collapse > Eventually, the working population crashes because the portion of wealth allocated to them is not enough, followed by collapse of the e…

The best stats you've ever seen | Hans Rosling https://youtu.be/hVimVzgtD6w

I do really like that video and the book Factfulness.

However, income inequality is definitely one of the things getting worse with time. And it’s scary for everyone, because if you don’t have money, your ability to survive is reduced, and if you do have money… look back to what happened only a handful of centuries ago or even less when the proletariat revolted.

Sure, we aren’t there currently, but the trajectory is not going in a direction which inspires confidence in our future.

Re: Are we on the road to civilisation collapse? (2019)

#32

Post by mistermann »

branko_d wrote: post #16
no_wizard wrote: post #8

Perhaps not entire civilization collapse, pending nuclear arsenals unleashed, but I think we are edging ever closer to massive social upheaval, what shape of this I am unsure about. To quote an adjacent article that was mentioned in this one: How Western Civilization Could Collapse > Eventually, the working population crashes because the portion of wealth allocated to them is not enough, followed by collapse of the e…

The best stats you've ever seen | Hans Rosling https://youtu.be/hVimVzgtD6w

Having not watched the video due to crappy mobile (but I've seen some of his videos before), is this a "things are getting better, stay the course" type video, a "many things are ok, but we have very serious problems here", something else?

Re: Are we on the road to civilisation collapse? (2019)

#33

Post by eplanit »

no_wizard wrote: post #8

Perhaps not entire civilization collapse, pending nuclear arsenals unleashed, but I think we are edging ever closer to massive social upheaval, what shape of this I am unsure about. To quote an adjacent article that was mentioned in this one: How Western Civilization Could Collapse > Eventually, the working population crashes because the portion of wealth allocated to them is not enough, followed by collapse of the e…

As a US citizen, I've been wondering for almost 10 years now if we're edging towards a new civil war. In the past 5 or so, I've been worrying almost equally about the state of global affairs setting the stage for potential world war.

After the collapse of the Soviet Union, we have been in a relatively stable world (9/11, Iraq, and Afghanistan notwithstanding -- none of them world war scale), but it now feels ever less so all the time.

If one has to have either a civil war or a world war (bizarre choice), a world war would actually serve to unite us, although our existing division is a weak starting place. A civil war destroys us from within, full stop.

My favorite conspiracy theory is that the CCP is sowing the division within us to drive us to civil war, whereby they win WWIII without ever firing a shot.

Re: Are we on the road to civilisation collapse? (2019)

#34

Post by noahtallen »

no_wizard wrote: post #27
99_00 wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Eventually, the working population crashes because the portion of wealth allocated to them is not enough What does it mean for the "working population" to "crash"? In the West and the rest of the world, those with the lowest income have the highest birth rate. So it can't mean a decrease in population due to low birth rate.

In context this means political and economic crash, where the poor / working class lose their shirts in an economic upheaval (of which we’ve had at least two in my lifetime, the 2008 crash and the previous dotcom bubble). Unemployment at high levels etc. think 1930s depression

If we look back further, the situation can be even more dire (like the French or Russian revolutions).

Re: Are we on the road to civilisation collapse? (2019)

#35

Post by quickthrower2 »

BurningFrog wrote: post #26

I'm an amateur historian at best, but I'm not aware of any era that has not expected the world to end soon. The Christians have done it for 20 centuries now, as one example. During my life, it has always been a common expectation, though the expected cause has shifted a few times. My hunch is that maybe we're hard wired to expect the world to end, for some undiscovered reason. Again, I remind you of my amateur status…

I feel it’s the opposite - everyone expects things to go on as they are. At least in stable countries. We are hard wired not to expect the world to end.

Re: Are we on the road to civilisation collapse? (2019)

#36

Post by AnimalMuppet »

BurningFrog wrote: post #26

I'm an amateur historian at best, but I'm not aware of any era that has not expected the world to end soon. The Christians have done it for 20 centuries now, as one example. During my life, it has always been a common expectation, though the expected cause has shifted a few times. My hunch is that maybe we're hard wired to expect the world to end, for some undiscovered reason. Again, I remind you of my amateur status…

I think many people can see a kind of broken-ness to the world, and long for a world that isn't broken. I think that might be the basis for your observation - people kind of hope for an end, in the hope that what follows will be better.

Re: Are we on the road to civilisation collapse? (2019)

#38

Post by korantu »

noahtallen wrote: post #31
branko_d wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The best stats you've ever seen | Hans Rosling https://youtu.be/hVimVzgtD6w

I do really like that video and the book Factfulness. However, income inequality is definitely one of the things getting worse with time. And it’s scary for everyone, because if you don’t have money, your ability to survive is reduced, and if you do have money… look back to what happened only a handful of centuries ago or even less when the proletariat revolted. Sure, we aren’t there currently, but the trajectory is…

Is income inequality even good measure in the forst place? More and more people of this world are rising out of poverty, and getting education, why specifically does uphieval would occur?

Re: Are we on the road to civilisation collapse? (2019)

#39

Post by AnimalMuppet »

eplanit wrote: post #33
no_wizard wrote: post #8

Perhaps not entire civilization collapse, pending nuclear arsenals unleashed, but I think we are edging ever closer to massive social upheaval, what shape of this I am unsure about. To quote an adjacent article that was mentioned in this one: How Western Civilization Could Collapse > Eventually, the working population crashes because the portion of wealth allocated to them is not enough, followed by collapse of the e…

As a US citizen, I've been wondering for almost 10 years now if we're edging towards a new civil war. In the past 5 or so, I've been worrying almost equally about the state of global affairs setting the stage for potential world war. After the collapse of the Soviet Union, we have been in a relatively stable world (9/11, Iraq, and Afghanistan notwithstanding -- none of them world war scale), but it now feels ever les…

Replace CCP with Russia, and it's not a conspiracy theory.

Re: Are we on the road to civilisation collapse? (2019)

#40

Post by wsc981 »

Santosh83 wrote: post #3

The graph showing the lifespan of ancient civilisations seems to have ignored the Indus Valley civilisation, which apparently lasted from about 3300 BC to 1300 BC. It is also a good example of climate change leading to collapse, according to experts.

If only they could have reduced their CO2 emissions ...
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