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When patents attack Android

googleblog.blogspot.com

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Re: When patents attack Android

#31

Post by mithaler »

funkah wrote: post #23

I keep seeing this idea that Apple is filing patent lawsuits because they are afraid of their competitors and their business is on the verge of collapse, and I just don't understand. Their business is better than ever, breaking records every quarter. I think maybe people are reading too much into market-share figures, or projecting their wishes onto reality. Also, did Google not just try to buy the Nortel patents? We…

I play board games, many of which have an auction mechanic. It's not uncommon in such a game to bid on something to prevent everyone else from getting it and using it against you. Why wouldn't the same thing happen in the real world, where real money is at stake?

Re: When patents attack Android

#32

Post by yanw »

funkah wrote: post #23

I keep seeing this idea that Apple is filing patent lawsuits because they are afraid of their competitors and their business is on the verge of collapse, and I just don't understand. Their business is better than ever, breaking records every quarter. I think maybe people are reading too much into market-share figures, or projecting their wishes onto reality. Also, did Google not just try to buy the Nortel patents? We…

They bid for them defensively as dictated by a broken patent system. The problem is that all their competitors joined together to block them from buying the patents so they could tax Android.

Re: When patents attack Android

#33

Post by watty »

evilswan wrote: post #20

If the "innovations" in Android were already covered by prior patents; they weren't innovations at all, were they? Not necessarily my point of view, but isn't that how patents should work? Protecting prior art.

There are plenty of innovative and unpatented areas of Android. The problem is "A smartphone might involve as many as 250,000 (largely questionable) patent claims" - this is insane. Patents should protect prior art, not every single trivial software task. I'd guess it's impossible to create a new mobile phone and OS without violating patents.

Re: When patents attack Android

#34

Post by marcamillion »

I just finished listening to that Planet Money podcast on this, just to see this blog post this now.

Should be interesting to see how this plays out.

I wonder if all parties involved would lobby for the destruction of software patents - wholesale - and call a ceasefire.

Re: When patents attack Android

#35

Post by nitrogen »

febeling wrote: post #16

Patent lawsuits are probably filed nowadays how you would threat opponent in a game of chess. You just need to attack to maintain the strategic position. You need a lawsuit in an advanced state as a strategic asset. I don't buy that Google is really any better in a moral sense. I do believe, though, that there are plenty of people at the companies driving these current litigations that hate what they are doing. It's…

That is indeed the status quo for the large corporate players, but small-time developers/founders such as myself will still argue against the game because the same tactics are used by slow-moving incumbents and patent trolls to crush the nimble startups that are innovating at a much faster rate. A patent threat against Android in particular is treated as a threat by proxy against all independent developers because of its open nature.

Re: When patents attack Android

#36

Post by yanw »

cma wrote: post #10
watty wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're being painted as a victim because they are. Patents are BS and continue to hinder innovation. They may be anti-competitive in other areas (although I don't know specifics). Can you provide some sources?

They sure touted their PageRank patent.

Having patents doesn't mean you agree with the state of the patent system, also they have yet to sue anyone over patents.

Re: When patents attack Android

#37

Post by rudiger »

funkah wrote: post #23

I keep seeing this idea that Apple is filing patent lawsuits because they are afraid of their competitors and their business is on the verge of collapse, and I just don't understand. Their business is better than ever, breaking records every quarter. I think maybe people are reading too much into market-share figures, or projecting their wishes onto reality. Also, did Google not just try to buy the Nortel patents? We…

Countries can argue that nuclear weapons are bad and call for disarmament, but it's not contradictory to stockpile them when there's the credible threat of other countries fighting with these weapons.

Re: When patents attack Android

#38

Post by azakai »

AllenKids wrote: post #12

If the patents were used to block android out of market, then maybe it is harming the consumers. But I see no problem with demanding license fees and maintaining certain feature exclusivity, even that means Android become not so free or less user-friendly. Google does not represent all people and Android has no inherent right to be free.

I have many problems with demands of license fees for patents that are trivial. All of the patents mentioned so far in this battle have been of that sort.

This isn't a valid use of the patent system - it's an abuse of that system. This is very clear to both people that suppose software patents and that oppose them.

If someone can show a valid, nontrivial patent that Android is being attacked with, I might change my mind.

Lawsuits over trivial patents scare me because I might be the next target. If I found another startup some day, and develop all my own technology, I can still be sued over trivial patents. If it can happen to Google, what's to stop it from happening to any of us, if we become successful enough to be targets for this sort of thing?

Re: When patents attack Android

#39

Post by AllenKids »

yock wrote: post #21
AllenKids wrote: post #12

If the patents were used to block android out of market, then maybe it is harming the consumers. But I see no problem with demanding license fees and maintaining certain feature exclusivity, even that means Android become not so free or less user-friendly. Google does not represent all people and Android has no inherent right to be free.

It isn't the demand for fees, per se, it's the intended result of those fees. Those fees are to be charged at such a rate, a rate practically guaranteed by the monopoly promised by the patent, as to make Android infeasible economically. That behavior is at the very heart of anti-competitive law.

I don't get it. The fees are always in 5-20 ranges from what can be gathered. Collectively Microsoft, Apple and Oracle would get $40 tops per phone. Why is it economically infeasible? Adding $40 to COGS at about $200 sure is not pretty, but impossible? Also Google is making money off of the platform, let it subsides Android manufacturors if necessary. After all by giving out decent mobile OS for free, Google also makes Microsoft's business model "infeasible economically". Live by the sword, at least expect a few cuts.

Re: When patents attack Android

#40

Post by wvenable »

funkah wrote: post #23

I keep seeing this idea that Apple is filing patent lawsuits because they are afraid of their competitors and their business is on the verge of collapse, and I just don't understand. Their business is better than ever, breaking records every quarter. I think maybe people are reading too much into market-share figures, or projecting their wishes onto reality. Also, did Google not just try to buy the Nortel patents? We…

Apple is doing just fine but that doesn't mean they've laid off their legal department. As long as there is money to be made here, they're going to do something about it. That's business.
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