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Bare metal Apple M1 Debian at 4K 60

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Re: Bare metal Apple M1 Debian at 4K 60

#31

Post by phkahler »

darkwater wrote: post #12
phire wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you just want a system in the Mac Mini (or MacBook) style form factor, it's probably not worth it. There are plenty of x86 based alternatives and even some low cost ARM solutions. But, if your requirement is for a "high performance" ARM based machine, suddenly the M1 macs become very appealing. Many of the other solutions are ARM dev boards that have a tenth of the performance and very limited RAM. There are some…

> If you just want a system in the Mac Mini (or MacBook) style form factor, it's probably not worth it. There are plenty of x86 based alternatives and even some low cost ARM solutions. Care to elaborate, or at least some names/models and opinions? I might be in the market for a fanless home server in that form factor. I might end up just buying a Synology but I would like to run HomeAssistant on it as well (although…

I'm a fan of the Mellori-ITX: https://github.com/phkahler/mellori_ITX

It's a little larger, but the only fan is the CPU fan and that generally stays slow and quiet. It's time to update it with a new motherboard and put a 5700G to get 8 cores. The one shown in the pics is my software development machine and it's a dream for that.

Re: Bare metal Apple M1 Debian at 4K 60

#33

Post by derefr »

alfonsodev wrote: post #22
nisegami wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is buying a used M1 Mac an option?

I bought my M1 refurbished from Apple, so far zero problems. https://www.apple.com/shop/refurbished

I think the GP didn’t mean “in non-new condition”, but rather “from the secondary market, so that you aren’t giving Apple your money.” Getting a refurbished Mac from Apple still involves giving Apple money.

Re: Bare metal Apple M1 Debian at 4K 60

#34

Post by arvinsim »

gizdan wrote: post #19
mark_l_watson wrote: post #2

It always impresses the hell out of me when I see side projects like this project that I couldn’t do myself. On the economic/$$ perspective: the Linux in M1 projects are probably targeted at Mac Minis and given that when you pay for a Mac Mini you are paying for hardware and Apple software. Does this make sense economically, comparing other bare bone systems with a Mac Mini style form factor?

If the performance of the M1 with Linux matches the performance with macOS I honestly believe it's worth it. Apple has produced a wonderful product and personally I'm very likely to purchase a Macbook Pro M1 if Linux is stable on it.

Why not get the Air? Are you optimistic that the touchbar will be fully supported?

Re: Bare metal Apple M1 Debian at 4K 60

#35

Post by You-Are-Right »

scoopertrooper wrote: post #27
tomxor wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is also another factor for some of us... Although practically I am interested in running Linux on an appleM1, my conscious will no longer allow me to fund the company producing it, so I can never own one.

Isn't that a bit extreme? What is Apple doing that is so morally wrong that you can't give them money for a quality product?

They make people sleep very deep.

Re: Bare metal Apple M1 Debian at 4K 60

#36

Post by jpitz »

OldHand2018 wrote: post #24
darkwater wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you just want a system in the Mac Mini (or MacBook) style form factor, it's probably not worth it. There are plenty of x86 based alternatives and even some low cost ARM solutions. Care to elaborate, or at least some names/models and opinions? I might be in the market for a fanless home server in that form factor. I might end up just buying a Synology but I would like to run HomeAssistant on it as well (although…

FYI, the Mac Mini M1 has a fan that never turns off. It's very quiet, but it is not 100% silent. To be fair, it is really hard to get the fan to speed up and make more noise.

Mine sits on the desk 20 inches from my head, and I've never heard it.

Re: Bare metal Apple M1 Debian at 4K 60

#37

Post by marcan_42 »

linsomniac wrote: post #32

... Speaking of which, what does the M1 mean for the Hackintosh?

The Hackintosh seems likely to die once Apple stops releasing new macOS updates with x86 support (which is probably at least 5 years out, hopefully). Unlike x86 Macs, ARM Macs have nonstandard customizations in the CPU, making running macOS on any other ARM CPU quite impractical without deep hacks. ARM macOS also does not support anything but Apple GPUs (and requires a GPU).

That said, we know at least the VMkernel is likely to work on other ARMs, though userspace might not like it if you don't have things like AMX in your CPU, or the SPRR stuff. Rosetta is also unlikely to work without Apple's custom extensions, though some are headed for standardization. And the GPU is still an issue. If you try really hard (e.g. sticking the OS in a VM and emulating a bunch of stuff) it can hypothetically work... but it's orders of magnitude harder than a Hackintosh.

Re: Bare metal Apple M1 Debian at 4K 60

#38

Post by rkangel »

mark_l_watson wrote: post #2

It always impresses the hell out of me when I see side projects like this project that I couldn’t do myself. On the economic/$$ perspective: the Linux in M1 projects are probably targeted at Mac Minis and given that when you pay for a Mac Mini you are paying for hardware and Apple software. Does this make sense economically, comparing other bare bone systems with a Mac Mini style form factor?

> the Linux in M1 projects are probably targeted at Mac Minis

I'm not sure that's true. What the M1 gives you is an incredibly powerful processor that's also very power efficient. That gives you a spectacularly performing laptop with good battery life, making the M1 laptops compelling even if you want to run Linux.

If you're plugged into the wall the M1s are still quick, but there are other options to get you into the same ballpark. There are no other options that use as little power.

Re: Bare metal Apple M1 Debian at 4K 60

#39

Post by gizdan »

arvinsim wrote: post #34
gizdan wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the performance of the M1 with Linux matches the performance with macOS I honestly believe it's worth it. Apple has produced a wonderful product and personally I'm very likely to purchase a Macbook Pro M1 if Linux is stable on it.

Why not get the Air? Are you optimistic that the touchbar will be fully supported?

Because I stupidly forget that something as stupid as a touchbar was created in the first place. Perhaps it'll be the Air in that case.

Edit: worth noting that the Air is more likely to thermal throttle the Pro, which would be a major reason to go for the Pro. I support it'll be alright if it's mostly connected to a keyboard.

Re: Bare metal Apple M1 Debian at 4K 60

#40

Post by jeroenhd »

cguess wrote: post #28
ntnsndr wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's good planning ahead for when Apple no longer supports perfectly fine old-ish machines. Both my mother and wife are now using Linux not because their computers broke but because Apple gave up on them.

How old are their machines? Apple's next MacOS version supports MacBooks Pros going back to 2015. Seven years is a pretty long support cycle.

Is it? Windows has always had an extended support life cycle if ten years, and Windows 11 is heavily criticised for their new restrictions on hardware. I've seen Windows 10 run just fine on budget devices that go further back than that.

You can get the most recent Ubuntu LTS to run on a ten year old Thinkpad without issue. The performance may be limited bytthe hardware, but the software isn't the problem here.

Honestly, if I were to pay the premium prices Apple asks for their products, I'd expect them to outsupport a bunch of hackers that had nothing to do with the hardware.

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