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Apple and Google must allow other in-app payment systems, Korean law declares

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Re: Apple and Google must allow other in-app payment systems, Korean law declares

#31

Post by dalbasal »

The concessions Apple & Google made to "stave off regulation" are informative in themselves:

It also agreed to let developers inform their users about payment options outside the App Store, using the email addresses that users gave them. Google said that it would only take 15 percent of developers' first million dollars instead of 30 percent.

Combined with "competition for monopoly" elements like paying Telcoms not to develop their own app stores or support 3rd party ones, the whole thing stinks to high heavens.

Once upon a time, "net neutrality" had wide support, and there was understanding that it required constant vigilance. Google, ironically, was a big defender of net neutrality... even as they established their own dam immediately downstream of ISPs.

Re: Apple and Google must allow other in-app payment systems, Korean law declares

#33

Post by mark_l_watson »

A good regulatory trend. This is what governments are supposed to do to support what I would call “safe and efficient capitalism.”

That said, Apple did cut in half the fee for almost all developers and I installed Netflix, HBO, Prime, and Hulu apps that work fine with my existing streaming media plans that are direct to the providers. I forget, did Google also recently reduce developer fees? It may be as simple as both companies seeing the writing in the wall and are trying to get in front of this.

Re: Apple and Google must allow other in-app payment systems, Korean law declares

#34

Post by perryizgr8 »

weddpros wrote: post #27
Dah00n wrote: post #13

When the EU does the same things will turn for real.

and they can, because there's not a single EU company with an app store to harm. App stores are designed for profit, not simply for our convenience. Imagine a government forcing AirBnb to let people pay hand to hand to the owner of the apartment. It's the same issue, right?

No it is not the same issue. Airbnb doesn't have a say if I make arrangements of my own with the host. We lose the benefits and security provided by airbnb if we think that airbnb's cut is unjustified.

I only wish we (users and devs) could do that on Ios.

Re: Apple and Google must allow other in-app payment systems, Korean law declares

#35

Post by rndgermandude »

bubblethink wrote: post #12

Is there a better source and the text of the law ? Payment systems are a proxy for the fee since there isn't an explicit publishing fee. It would be quite straightforward for both Apple and Google to charge a publishing fee, which may end up close to the current rent. The larger issue is that there aren't alternative app stores. Apple doesn't allow them at all, and Google severely restricts them at the technical and…

Apple and Google won't know what developers using outside payment systems for purchases such as subscriptions or "in-app" stuff are making. So they'd have a problem deciding what a publishing fee should be. Monikers such as popularity can be bad estimators. They might end up charging developers a lot less or a lot more - the latter of which might ruin some developers or hike prices for customers even more.

I am not against a publishing fee instead of what there is now, but it should be fair and transparent. Not that the current system is fair and transparent...

Re: Apple and Google must allow other in-app payment systems, Korean law declares

#37

Post by simondotau »

r3trohack3r wrote: post #21
darkerside wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A publishing fee would also be regressive compared to the payment tax. Right now, people don't pay until they are successful, at which point they may pay a LOT. But it keeps the app marketplace much more of a free marketplace.

It’s not exactly a publishing fee, but today you have to pay Apple $99/year to distribute software into Apple’s ecosystem; otherwise they’ll hide your application behind a non-obvious ctrl+click+run flow. To my knowledge, this fee is collected regardless of your distribution channel. I wouldn’t call $99/year “not paying.”

The $99/year gives you additional developer tools and access to the App Store storefront. It's up to Apple what constitutes a sufficient license fee for the commercial use of Apple's proprietary software libraries.

Apple's libraries are licensed to developers under whatever license Apple chooses. They could require a certain revenue share regardless of which payment gateway is used. Heck, they could license it under the GPL and require all developers who build programs against their libraries to release their source code. It's their code, it's up to them.

Similarly, Epic Games can decide when developers might have to pay Epic for software they distribute with Unreal Engine. Whether it's a flat fee, a revenue share, a profit share, if there are discounts or incentives—all of that is entirely for Epic to decide.

Re: Apple and Google must allow other in-app payment systems, Korean law declares

#38

Post by alisonkisk »

stirlo wrote: post #4

Finally. This is exactly how regulators should respond to the market abuse of these technology monopolies. If they wanted to head this off all they had to do was pay a reasonable amount of tax in the country where the revenue was generated and offer a reasonable (single percentage) fee for facilitating payments. They chose not to so they reap what they sow

What are you talking about? They pay sales tax based on revenue, and they provide a lot more than facilitate payments.

Re: Apple and Google must allow other in-app payment systems, Korean law declares

#39

Post by simondotau »

simondotau wrote: post #29
bubblethink wrote: post #12

Is there a better source and the text of the law ? Payment systems are a proxy for the fee since there isn't an explicit publishing fee. It would be quite straightforward for both Apple and Google to charge a publishing fee, which may end up close to the current rent. The larger issue is that there aren't alternative app stores. Apple doesn't allow them at all, and Google severely restricts them at the technical and…

According to the FSF, the distribution of a binary computer program which substantially relies upon GPL libraries is considered a derivative work and would require you to abide by the terms of the GPL license. Similarly, an iOS app which substantially relies upon (and must be compiled with) Apple's libraries in order to work is subject to whatever the terms Apple includes in their software license. Of course Apple is…

To the people down-voting this, I realise that my post espouses a controversial opinion for Hacker News. But could you please explain what you disagree with?

Re: Apple and Google must allow other in-app payment systems, Korean law declares

#40

Post by mrtksn »

stirlo wrote: post #4

Finally. This is exactly how regulators should respond to the market abuse of these technology monopolies. If they wanted to head this off all they had to do was pay a reasonable amount of tax in the country where the revenue was generated and offer a reasonable (single percentage) fee for facilitating payments. They chose not to so they reap what they sow

It's going to be a hell for the users and the smaller developers.

Devs will have to support multiple platforms, different API and options. Also different legal arrangements would be needed as each country has different laws and processes. Remember the agreements and forms we fill for different countries when we want to sell paid apps/features on App Store? I also can't wait to pay account fees for many app stores and modify my apps to fit specific app store rules.

The %30 cut, for me covers this boring complexity. I'm sceptical that the potentially lower commissions will offset the added development and administrative costs.

As for the users, people will start forgetting where they paid what. They will get frustrated, blame devs etc. It would become tiresome and many will be turned off the moment a payment is requested simply because they don't want to go through the same stuff multiple times.

I despise platform fragmentations. Instead of telling companies what they must do, I think the regulators should intervene for market fairness, i.e. Apple&Google getting heavily fined when enforce different rules on different developers differently or compel them to accept an app in the App Store if they can't clearly indicate which rule is being broken.

I would like to remind you all the troubles we need to go through to support just platforms: AppStore and Play Store. I am NOT looking forward to start paying fees and do development/Marketing work/Adjustments for Epic, Microsoft, Oracle, T-Mobile, Vodafone etc. just to reach the exact same users as of today.

Edit:

I, as a developer, don't want to deal with multiple platforms and their management and fees. Please tell me if you are mobile developer or is your opinion ideological. The Arguments so far look like coming from people who have no real experience with getting an app into the AppStore.

How do you plan to sell Apps in the UK, France, Turkey, charge VAT and pay it to the respective governments for example. How do you plan to file your export paperwork in the US? How do you plan to deal with compliance?

Seriously, are there any indie developers here with hands on experience? How do you handle international trade and taxation outside of platforms like AppleStore?

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