Sony’s new PS5 model weighs less because it has a smaller heatsink • Hacker News Board

Re: Sony’s new PS5 model weighs less because it has a smaller heatsink

#31

Post by CoolGuySteve » Sun, Aug 29, 2021, 4:04 PM UTC

icegreentea2 wrote: post #14

CoolGuySteve wrote: post #8

My PS5 already overheats if I play a PS5 game on it with my cabinet door closed. It was never an issue with my PS4 Slim, PS3, or XBox 360. All in all I think it's the worst designed console I've ever had. The curvy top makes controllers slide off while they're charging so I had to put a drawer liner on top. The white plastic overhang seems delicate, I have no idea how I'd ever pack the thing up without breaking it. A…

Yeah, this generation of consoles are much more power hungry than their predecessors (you can just see that in their designs). PS5 draws like ~220W from the wall, Series X draws like 200+. The 360 draws like ~120W.

That's true but the Series X has a turbine design similar to the trashcan Mac Pro where air is pulled through a heatsink block that makes contact with multiple components.

It seems much more effective at removing heat per unit of heatsink mass than the large flat heatsink+heatpipe design of the PS5.

Re: Sony’s new PS5 model weighs less because it has a smaller heatsink

#32

Post by [deleted] » Sun, Aug 29, 2021, 4:04 PM UTC

freemint wrote: post #25

icegreentea2 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's C. In terms of if it's bad? shrug . With a smaller heat sink, the chips are almost certainly going to be hotter (dunno how much.. at least 3-5 degrees, maybe up to 10?). Does that matter? Tech youtubers love to emphasize cooling - which is fair, I think it's important, but I also think it's overdone. From the end-user standpoint, the question is does this meaningfully increase the rate that their unit thermal th…

I would argue it's technically a difference in °K not °C.

[deleted]

Re: Sony’s new PS5 model weighs less because it has a smaller heatsink

#33

Post by fragmede » Sun, Aug 29, 2021, 4:08 PM UTC

xxpor wrote: post #22

kabdib wrote: post #19

Consoles have design lifetimes, and thermals are part of the computation that helps you figure out if your components are going to last as long as the warranty. Obviously, if you run a chip hot, its service life will be reduced. So companies develop models that tell them how long things like the SOC (main chip with CPU, etc.) will last for a given temperature and use frequency, and whether or not they've got a 1-year…

Hopefully the industry has improved their estimates since the Xbox 360

Starting with the original PlayStation in 1994, nevermind all of the other hardware Sony makes since way before that, they just might have a bit more experience making consoles than Microsoft did in 2010 with the 360. (though to be fair, the original Xbox was released in 2001.)

Re: Sony’s new PS5 model weighs less because it has a smaller heatsink

#34

Post by rowanG077 » Sun, Aug 29, 2021, 4:15 PM UTC

icegreentea2 wrote: post #10

H1Supreme wrote: post #4

> with rear exhaust temperatures around 3 to 5 degrees higher Is that C or F? I'm going to assume Fahrenheit. Also, is that bad? In other words, did they measure the rest of the unit to see if it was hotter or cooler? Maybe they've directed more heat to the exhaust. Which is the whole point, after all.

It's C. In terms of if it's bad? shrug . With a smaller heat sink, the chips are almost certainly going to be hotter (dunno how much.. at least 3-5 degrees, maybe up to 10?). Does that matter? Tech youtubers love to emphasize cooling - which is fair, I think it's important, but I also think it's overdone. From the end-user standpoint, the question is does this meaningfully increase the rate that their unit thermal th…

Tech YouTubers love to emphasize cooling because most if not all laptops are thermally limited.

Re: Sony’s new PS5 model weighs less because it has a smaller heatsink

#35

Post by icegreentea2 » Sun, Aug 29, 2021, 4:21 PM UTC

kjaftaedi wrote: post #17

icegreentea2 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's C. In terms of if it's bad? shrug . With a smaller heat sink, the chips are almost certainly going to be hotter (dunno how much.. at least 3-5 degrees, maybe up to 10?). Does that matter? Tech youtubers love to emphasize cooling - which is fair, I think it's important, but I also think it's overdone. From the end-user standpoint, the question is does this meaningfully increase the rate that their unit thermal th…

I think for the end user the primary concern is not performance, but the potential fan noise. If the performance goes up or down, end users might not even notice, but if the fan is constantly kicking in and being too loud too often, more people will be concerned.

That's fair. I think the fan noise consideration is interesting because it's possible (depending on fan and load characteristics) to run the fan more (as in % duty on at "high" speed) and not meaningfully effect the perception enjoyment since it's often the fan noise changing (not the fan noise itself... though obviously this depends on how obnoxious the fan noise) that is annoying, not the fan noise itself.

I don't own any of these consoles, so I can't really say first hand, but for my Xbox One (the og one), I just know that I notice when the fans kick in... and then I just get absorbed into the game (and game noise).

Re: Sony’s new PS5 model weighs less because it has a smaller heatsink

#36

Post by bArray » Sun, Aug 29, 2021, 4:25 PM UTC

H1Supreme wrote: post #4

> with rear exhaust temperatures around 3 to 5 degrees higher Is that C or F? I'm going to assume Fahrenheit. Also, is that bad? In other words, did they measure the rest of the unit to see if it was hotter or cooler? Maybe they've directed more heat to the exhaust. Which is the whole point, after all.

In theory it could be good thing for more heat to come out of the back with the same SoC - it means more heat is being transferred to the air... As long as the running thermals look the same this would be an improvement.

A reason for this could be better air modelling, increased surface area of the heat sink or longer contact time with the heat sink before being fanned out.

It's worth waiting for some proper testing before deciding if it is better or not.

Re: Sony’s new PS5 model weighs less because it has a smaller heatsink

#37

Post by christkv » Sun, Aug 29, 2021, 4:33 PM UTC

I presume they are cost cutting where they can as material prices have been very high recently. The heat sink seems like a likely candidate where they can save money.

Re: Sony’s new PS5 model weighs less because it has a smaller heatsink

#38

Post by yboris » Sun, Aug 29, 2021, 4:43 PM UTC

H1Supreme wrote: post #4

> with rear exhaust temperatures around 3 to 5 degrees higher Is that C or F? I'm going to assume Fahrenheit. Also, is that bad? In other words, did they measure the rest of the unit to see if it was hotter or cooler? Maybe they've directed more heat to the exhaust. Which is the whole point, after all.

Doesn't this depend significantly on ambient temperature? Running the console in the summer without AC could make the components run at yet-higher temperature, right?

I'm not familiar with how quickly CPU (and similar components) deteriorate under much higher temperature.

Re: Sony’s new PS5 model weighs less because it has a smaller heatsink

#39

Post by salamandersauce » Sun, Aug 29, 2021, 4:51 PM UTC

kjaftaedi wrote: post #17

icegreentea2 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's C. In terms of if it's bad? shrug . With a smaller heat sink, the chips are almost certainly going to be hotter (dunno how much.. at least 3-5 degrees, maybe up to 10?). Does that matter? Tech youtubers love to emphasize cooling - which is fair, I think it's important, but I also think it's overdone. From the end-user standpoint, the question is does this meaningfully increase the rate that their unit thermal th…

I think for the end user the primary concern is not performance, but the potential fan noise. If the performance goes up or down, end users might not even notice, but if the fan is constantly kicking in and being too loud too often, more people will be concerned.

In the brief testing Austin Evans did in his YouTube video comparing the two, the new model was actually a touch quieter and a few degrees warmer. Of course that may not hold in all scenarios but it's something to note.

Re: Sony’s new PS5 model weighs less because it has a smaller heatsink

#40

Post by lttlrck » Sun, Aug 29, 2021, 4:51 PM UTC

H1Supreme wrote: post #4

> with rear exhaust temperatures around 3 to 5 degrees higher Is that C or F? I'm going to assume Fahrenheit. Also, is that bad? In other words, did they measure the rest of the unit to see if it was hotter or cooler? Maybe they've directed more heat to the exhaust. Which is the whole point, after all.

Is it even bad ... all it means it more heat is going to out the back which could suggest better thermals.