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Does feeding garden birds do more harm than good?

bbc.co.uk

31–40 of 94 posts

Re: Does feeding garden birds do more harm than good?

#31

An alternative narrative: if feeders favor dominant/ bully birds, it might help the less dominant ones by freeing up just about every other spot in the area. If you knew the high school bullies were hanging out in the gym 90% of the time, the gym is actually helping you avoid the bullies (assuming you don’t have to go to the gym).

Maybe, but I suspect many of the birds I see around are made of the very food my wife puts out. Would be curious to see more study.

Re: Does feeding garden birds do more harm than good?

#32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you're being downvoted because you're giving non-mainstream health advice and acting as if it's sensible and obvious. Most people are used to hearing strange health advice from others and have developed strong "bullshit detector" instincts around this topic. "Eat raw garlic" would be a textbook example of this form of health advice, as it has an extremely unpleasant taste in any significant quantity and also…

It’s dangerous health advice as well, going completely vegan without some planning can result in all sorts of health issues. Everyone should Google “vegan b12 deficiency” Plant based diets can be healthy but you’re putting nutritional yeast in a lot of meals.

Yes switching too fast is dangerous for someone without a good vitality

Of course people should do it gradually, and about b12 deficiency, someone eating mostly raw food will have lower levels (compared to the "health norm") but it's mostly because we need less of it, we can produce it naturally, and do so only when necessary. It's in French but someone like Florian Gomet explains this fact well. Why would I be deficient in b12 if my energy, digestion, and everything is going perfectly (someone "deficient" would not be able to accomplish what Florian Gomet did or just my life style since 10 years)? I'm asking you

Re: Does feeding garden birds do more harm than good?

#33
post #14
post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t think the size of the bird is particularly relevant as birds of the same size compete for the same nesting sites. The article gives the example of blue tits dominating willow and marsh tits by hoarding the bird feeder and kicking them out of their nesting sites. Both the willow and marsh tit are slightly bigger than the blue tit. It seems to me that your garden would also have this issue.

A bird feeder is a very small location with an extremely high concentration of seeds. A garden, while small, is much larger than a feeder. I think less dominant birds would stand a much better chance of reaching the seeds in a spread out garden than they would at a feeder. Additionally, the plants in the garden offer cover for small birds to hide behind while they’re eating seeds on the ground. This should also help…

Another factor is whether your practice also helps create additional nesting spots. Certain plants, leaving behind brush or downed trees, etc, can help create additional nesting sites, or leave ones that would otherwise be removed. For example, we maintain a few brush piles and downed trees rather than chipping everything. These make for busy way points where you’ll see less common visitors.

Re: Does feeding garden birds do more harm than good?

#34
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Our ideal food is plant-based This is a myth. We eat lots of cereals of course, but the longest living people are definitely ommnivorous and eat a lot of seafood also. We can survive on bread and water, but this is not ideal. Common people identify plant eaters with primitive, but is a mistake. Specialized plant eaters developped a lot of modern features. We don't have ever-growing teeth. We don't have a gut split…

My favourite are the people who claim being a vegan is our natural state but eat fortified foods to get enough B12.

[deleted]

Re: Does feeding garden birds do more harm than good?

#35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you're being downvoted because you're giving non-mainstream health advice and acting as if it's sensible and obvious. Most people are used to hearing strange health advice from others and have developed strong "bullshit detector" instincts around this topic. "Eat raw garlic" would be a textbook example of this form of health advice, as it has an extremely unpleasant taste in any significant quantity and also…

> Garlic is the plant necessary in everyday life from the past until the present days. It contains active compounds that are responsible for its effect on almost every part of the human body. Garlic is an excellent tonic for the human organism. It has been used for medical treatment of everything, from ancient civilizations to date > From all of the above-mentioned data, it can be concluded that administration of gar…

Please read your own quote back to yourself.

Does it make any hard, falsifiable claims (e.g. "eating one clove of garlic daily reduces the probability of catching a cold by 26%")? Does it make any prescriptive recommendations at all (at least to people that are not hyperlypemic)? Does it even sound remotely at all like hard science?

Regardless of the validity of the health claims, does this mean people should actually start eating something that is repulsive to both them and everybody else around them?

Re: Does feeding garden birds do more harm than good?

#36

I often see people giving bread or other completely inappropriate food to birds in parcs or horses, chickens in small farms or ducks, swans, gallinules, fishes in estuaries I think we can also raise the problem in people diet as well, it's quite related. Our ideal food is plant-based, vegetables, fruits, grains, seeds, leaves, bulbs (eating raw garlic is incredible), that's what we're designed for chewing and digesti…

>Our ideal food is...

This is probably why you're getting downvotes; it's the idealism and certainty with which you determine a human's ideal diet.

We cannot say with certainty what the ideal human diet is. And what's ideal for one group isn't ideal for another. For example: most Northern Europeans are adapted to digest fresh milk while East Asians are not.

I can't say with certainty what the best human diet is. But I can say it is highly probable that the ideal human diet includes some meat, and it's highly probable that humans cannot thrive on a plants-only diet. This is evidenced by no plants-only diet peoples in existence today, other than vegans, which are a young group, untested by time. And time is the greatest filter.

The longer something has been around, the higher the probability it is a good thing, and the higher the probability it will continue to stick around. And plant-only diet peoples haven't been around very long. Contrast that with peoples who eat meat, who have existed for millions of years.

Re: Does feeding garden birds do more harm than good?

#37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s dangerous health advice as well, going completely vegan without some planning can result in all sorts of health issues. Everyone should Google “vegan b12 deficiency” Plant based diets can be healthy but you’re putting nutritional yeast in a lot of meals.

Yes switching too fast is dangerous for someone without a good vitality Of course people should do it gradually, and about b12 deficiency, someone eating mostly raw food will have lower levels (compared to the "health norm") but it's mostly because we need less of it, we can produce it naturally, and do so only when necessary. It's in French but someone like Florian Gomet explains this fact well. Why would I be defic…

I haven't been able to find any reputable sources about your claim "we can produce it naturally", which sets off my bullshit detector for your entire claim.

You might be more successful if you support what you say with sources.

Re: Does feeding garden birds do more harm than good?

#38

An alternative narrative: if feeders favor dominant/ bully birds, it might help the less dominant ones by freeing up just about every other spot in the area. If you knew the high school bullies were hanging out in the gym 90% of the time, the gym is actually helping you avoid the bullies (assuming you don’t have to go to the gym).

But what if the bullies reproduced yearly? Wouldn't you want to reduce the bully's food supply?

[deleted]

Re: Does feeding garden birds do more harm than good?

#39

I often see people giving bread or other completely inappropriate food to birds in parcs or horses, chickens in small farms or ducks, swans, gallinules, fishes in estuaries I think we can also raise the problem in people diet as well, it's quite related. Our ideal food is plant-based, vegetables, fruits, grains, seeds, leaves, bulbs (eating raw garlic is incredible), that's what we're designed for chewing and digesti…

Yeah, these downvotes are silly. My guess would be not rage but simple disagreement, neither of which justify downvotes. Raw garlic is very intense, I've never heard of eating that except minced in salsa. I'd also say we're not evolved for purely vegetable eating, we've had access to cooked meat from fire for probably 1-2 million years. This is one reason our brains expanded, because we gained access to richer foods…

> I'd also say we're not evolved for purely vegetable eating

how come I can get all my necessary nutrients from it so?

> This is one reason our brains expanded, because we gained access to richer foods like cooked meat with fat, which in turn supported more brain cognition.

This also is interesting, it's definitely possible that at this time humans didn't have access to enough vegetable, it was pretty cold 1-2 million years ago, people like inuits obviously don't eat much plant-based food. Fire was an important step (for creating warmth at least), for cooking see this https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/food-for-thought-... which puts things more in relief

In brief, you're putting 2 confounding factors together: brain size expansion and cooked meat. It's very likely that our environment challenges forced us to adapt and get more intelligent, but the causal effect you're saying is not true, just like any logical implication can't be reversed

It's also fun because you are also implying "you'll be more clever by eating meat than vegetables" which is also wrong nowadays, just because we can't compare a situation that happened 1 million years ago in a different context.

Re: Does feeding garden birds do more harm than good?

#40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> that's what we're designed for chewing and digesting since million years You’re being downvoted because this is just wrong. Humans aren’t “designed”, we evolved and we evolved as omnivores NOT for a plant based diet. I’m not saying we can’t switch to a plant based diet now, it is probably better for us and the planet; but this “humans are naturally vegan” is just silly.

Sure we are omnivore like most primates, and fortunately because some human sometimes don't have anything else to eat. And meat is often better and safer cooked. I eat fish sometimes, but very rarely (2-3x/year), it's not about vegan, it's about unprocessed food (fruits, and most vegetable don't need to be cooked, and it's drastically reducing their benefits to do it). I think it's something people have to experience…

Your hypothesis seems to be that the invention of cooking made us unhealthier? That seems unlikely.
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