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Amazon Staffer Says She Was Fired over Bathroom Breaks for Bowel Issue

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Re: Amazon Staffer Says She Was Fired over Bathroom Breaks for Bowel Issue

#31

Post by prepend »

CodeWriter23 wrote: post #11
missedthecue wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Someone with diagnosed IBS could get a note in an email exchange with their primary physician.

Sure, if pre-employment, one had the privilege of having a primary physician.

A diagnosis of IBS requires a physician, right? It’s surprising that a letter wasn’t obtained on diagnosis in the first place.

Any time my doctor says something affects my work, I ask her for a letter in my medical record and keep a copy for myself.

This seems pretty straightforward and odd that a letter didn’t exist in the first place.

Re: Amazon Staffer Says She Was Fired over Bathroom Breaks for Bowel Issue

#32

Post by 1123581321 »

mrmuagi wrote: post #28
1123581321 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you get a lawyer? That’s an easy settlement.

Really? That seems like the worst situation tbh, being put in a position where you are suing people with legal expertise, and in a scenario where you could be afraid of being blacklisted for any future prospects. IANAL, but the law field seems to be very prone to elitism and group cohorting.

I disagree with you. These kinds of open-and-shut defiances of the law are easy for an average employment attorney to negotiate reasonable compensation (I.e. an elite lawyer doesn’t need to be found) and the circumstances are obviously bad enough that they don’t mark the employee as a troublemaker, and that’s assuming the case even makes the news.

Re: Amazon Staffer Says She Was Fired over Bathroom Breaks for Bowel Issue

#33

Post by zuminator »

If the issue led to termination it's at least conceivable that it's a little more complicated than the staffer is letting on. If the person took six 5-minute breaks and got their tasks accomplished, no problem. But if they took 6 20-minute bathroom breaks, that's 2 hours out of a day in the bathroom, on a daily basis. That's an employee who's away from their workstation fully 1/4 of their day. Are they really able to fulfill their responsibilities. Are they sincerely trying to fulfill their responsibilities?

While most people who have chronic conditions are absolutely willing and able to perform up to task if given a reasonable accommodation, in some cases it's staggeringly apparent that the employee has no intention of ever putting in a full day's work, and is using the claim of an illness as a shield while they coast through the day. Manage a large enough number of people and you will inevitably come across such types on rare occasion.

Re: Amazon Staffer Says She Was Fired over Bathroom Breaks for Bowel Issue

#34

Post by mrmuagi »

Permit wrote: post #5

> According to the filing, when she told a manager in November about her IBS and that she needed to use the bathroom up to six times a day, the manager told her to get a doctor's note. It appeared from the filing that Olivero didn't get the note. > Olivero then said in the filing that in January her manager said she was going to be written up, and that she'd need to get a doctor's note within five days. That seems...…

The scenario becomes weird when you take a step back and realize that she is a human being and bodily functions are even being monitored in such a way. I go to the bathroom sometimes more than her and the reasons are extremely defensible even outside medical reasons. Drink water often and see (although I would say perhaps with electrolytes mixed in as not to flush them out). I would not even doubt this was an excuse and they just wanted to get rid of her. It just feels icky, why does your manager need proof of your medical issue? What if it's a more private issue and you really don't want your medical privacy to be known to your manager? Perhaps a sexual organ is involved, and you are just not comfortable being pried into that way. Yuck.

I want to honestly ask you, how would you feel if someone monitored how many times you got up to stretch, how often you went to the bathroom, chatted with a coworker, or even just paused in thought and stopped touching your keyboard/mouse. Like a fucking human with diginity does. Would that not feel weird in your perspective? I certainly get vibes that this type of managerial practice is draconian and dehumanizing, and although my information about her day to day is limited, from the article, it seemed like an excuse to power trip and fire without justified cause.

Re: Amazon Staffer Says She Was Fired over Bathroom Breaks for Bowel Issue

#35

Post by LAC-Tech »

bllguo wrote: post #17
kradeelav wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not requiring a doctor's note for going to the restroom infrequently seems a bit more on the reasonable end. I'd have more sympathy for Amazon if, say, she was AWOL from work for more than an hour a day with no explanation. Humans are not machines and deserve some flexibility with their time.

to me 6 times during working hours is frequent by any measure, but that's hardly the important thing here. there has to be a line somewhere. is 8 frequent? 10? there is some threshold X, what we care about most is the response to crossing it and the response seems eminently reasonable. getting a note in 2 months is just not a draconian requirement no matter how it is spun. i have to give benefit of the doubt and assu…

> to me 6 times during working hours is frequent by any measure, but that's hardly the important thing here.

I'm so glad I'm work from home so I don't have to debate with people if I go to the bathroom too often are not.

Re: Amazon Staffer Says She Was Fired over Bathroom Breaks for Bowel Issue

#36

Post by mypalmike »

bllguo wrote: post #17
kradeelav wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not requiring a doctor's note for going to the restroom infrequently seems a bit more on the reasonable end. I'd have more sympathy for Amazon if, say, she was AWOL from work for more than an hour a day with no explanation. Humans are not machines and deserve some flexibility with their time.

to me 6 times during working hours is frequent by any measure, but that's hardly the important thing here. there has to be a line somewhere. is 8 frequent? 10? there is some threshold X, what we care about most is the response to crossing it and the response seems eminently reasonable. getting a note in 2 months is just not a draconian requirement no matter how it is spun. i have to give benefit of the doubt and assu…

Lucky us who don't have menial jobs that we get treated with respect and trust.

It's not because it's "Amazon". I have a friend who sorts mail in a USPS facility and it's the same deal - human dignity loses out to inflexible management every time.

Re: Amazon Staffer Says She Was Fired over Bathroom Breaks for Bowel Issue

#37

Post by magila »

cosmotic wrote: post #16

Six times doesn't seem like a lot. I bet I go 3 or 4 times a day at work, though maybe half those times are bowel related.

Since this was related to IBS there's a good chance her breaks took significantly longer than your typical piss break.

Re: Amazon Staffer Says She Was Fired over Bathroom Breaks for Bowel Issue

#38

Post by CodeWriter23 »

zamadatix wrote: post #27
CodeWriter23 wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I doubt in 60 days one can accumulate 1 day of sick time to use to go to the doctor. An unexcused absence during the probationary period would likely result in immediate termination.

I think the 2 weeks sick time and unlimited unpaid sick time off were still in effect, not to mention a full day off probably isn't required. Not to say these policies are grand or the working conditions are anywhere near reasonable just that the claim from the lawsuit it was a disability violation seems like it will be difficult to argue vs just being a shitty place to work.

My current job, I started with 0 hrs sick time and accumulate 1.67hrs per pay period (2x/mo). I’m fortunate that I work in a cool place and they would have fronted me the day off if I needed it.

Re: Amazon Staffer Says She Was Fired over Bathroom Breaks for Bowel Issue

#39

Post by mypalmike »

missedthecue wrote: post #8
CodeWriter23 wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I doubt in 60 days one can accumulate 1 day of sick time to use to go to the doctor. An unexcused absence during the probationary period would likely result in immediate termination.

Someone with diagnosed IBS could get a note in an email exchange with their primary physician.

Oh they had a primary physician?

Re: Amazon Staffer Says She Was Fired over Bathroom Breaks for Bowel Issue

#40

Post by AdmiralAsshat »

Permit wrote: post #5

> According to the filing, when she told a manager in November about her IBS and that she needed to use the bathroom up to six times a day, the manager told her to get a doctor's note. It appeared from the filing that Olivero didn't get the note. > Olivero then said in the filing that in January her manager said she was going to be written up, and that she'd need to get a doctor's note within five days. That seems...…

Speaking as someone with IBS, it took a long time to get a definitive "IBS" diagnosis from my doctor. IBS is a process of elimination diagnosis. They'll confirm it's not any number of other things, and only after definitively ruling out Crohn's disease and other more serious conditions will they settle on IBS (which I took from my doctor to mean "We don't know.")

Now for treatment purposes, they were giving me medications for it long before, when they just suspected it. So that fundamentally didn't change. But the whole process of ruling everything else out first took a number of specialist visits over a number of months, including a colonoscopy. I'm wondering if that had any factor into this person's lack of a doctor's note: that her GP could only say "I suspect she has IBS, but she'd need to go to a gastroenterologist to confirm" and the patient never got around to doing the specialist visits due to the time off they require.

IIRC the meds they give you for both IBS and Crohn's are pretty much the same. The crappy thing about them (pardon the pun) is that you're really not supposed to take them preventatively: ideally you should take only as needed when symptoms occur. By the time you realize you're having one of those days, you've already had like three or four bowel movements in the span of a few hours, and you'll probably have several more before the meds start to work.

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