Live data from Hacker News

How to deliver constructive feedback in difficult situations (2019)

productivityhub.org

31–40 of 87 posts

Re: How to deliver constructive feedback in difficult situations (2019)

#31
post #8
post #5

Ah , non-violent communication, a great tool. I've copied an excellent summary by @BeetleB To add to the above: 1. Observations should be specific, not generic ("you are lazy" vs "you have not accomplished any of the tasks you've been assigned"). They should also be objective - third party witnesses should have consensus. We can agree that you've not accomplished your tasks for the week. We will likely disagree on wh…

> However, if you want to take things to the next step and have better relations with people around you, do care about their feelings and use techniques to have them feel better - but out of empathy and not out of responsibility or guilt. This might be a very stupid question… Aren’t responsibility and guilt and empathy somehow very intertwined? At least you’re probably empathetic if you feel guilt or responsibility,…

They are somewhat orthogonal. You can have guilt with or without empathy. You definitely can have empathy without guilt.

If I give charity to a beggar, it is not because I feel guilty. I just want the help out the guy and I hope his condition improves. If I don't give charity to him, I don't feel guilty.

Guilt and responsibility often arise from cultural constructs, and indeed they partly exist to compel people who are not having empathy to act. Often it's a case of "You are a bad person for not giving money to that beggar" and so I give money to avoid being a "bad" person. NVC eschews the notion of "good" person and "bad" person, and encourages you to remove it from your internal dialogue. Give the guy money because you want to, not because of how others may perceive it.

Re: How to deliver constructive feedback in difficult situations (2019)

#32

These methods for NVC are useful because (a) they decouple analysis from emotions, and (b) they protect the target from feeling attacked, so it is possible for the target to receive the analysis instead of going into defensive mode. Daniel Dennett takes the paradigm further by adding a prequel, which is to clearly articulate the other person's logic and state of mind empathically first, before going into the analysis…

This in turn feels quite manipulative, though.

Could you clarify which aspect of it is manipulative?

The commenter's advice is emphasized quite a bit in negotiations books/courses. If you want the other person to listen to you, it really does help if you can summarize his stance in his voice - such that he will say "This guy gets what I'm trying to say."

Probably the majority of heated discussions I've witnessed is where they are talking past one another, and as a 3rd party observer it's very clear neither side understands where the other party is coming from, and they waste most of the time addressing things the other person isn't saying.

NVC is less explicit about it, but the principle is there:

"So it sounds like you're frustrated because the script takes an hour to run and you believe it can run in 10 minutes, thus saving you some time?"

(Feeling: Frustrated, Needs: Competence and efficiency, Observation: Takes an hour to run)

Re: How to deliver constructive feedback in difficult situations (2019)

#33
post #10

"Sandwich Technique" All you ever need to know.

I think the sandwich technique is flawed. Probably not worse than many alternatives, mind, but in my mind it only serves to highlight the criticism. When I notice it I laugh because, well, its the sandwich technique, and this person is trying to be nice when what I need is for them to be critical. I think it has its place where you are giving feedback to many people sequentially to help ensure no one is going to get accidentally picked on. Like when teaching, you don't want to have only negative things to say to the slow student (whose work in comparison will appear even worse).

The 'non violent communication' stuff feels useful as a pattern of conversation when you need to strengthen and clarify your own communication. It helps lead to statements that can't be quibbled with or creatively re-interpreted. Have you ever noticed some one making a big deal out of an offhand remark that wasn't really core to your point anyway? Sandwich technique can't help with that, but the meat of the article does.

Anyway, thanks for the spring board! Hope you enjoy the soliloquy.

Re: How to deliver constructive feedback in difficult situations (2019)

#34

These methods for NVC are useful because (a) they decouple analysis from emotions, and (b) they protect the target from feeling attacked, so it is possible for the target to receive the analysis instead of going into defensive mode. Daniel Dennett takes the paradigm further by adding a prequel, which is to clearly articulate the other person's logic and state of mind empathically first, before going into the analysis…

This in turn feels quite manipulative, though.

Yep, I was reading the examples thinking "god, I'd really hate someone talking to me like that". It feels very "corporate training speak" or something, very smarmy and false.

Re: How to deliver constructive feedback in difficult situations (2019)

#35

I think the observation vs evaluation examples are sloppy (yes, that’s an evaluation). I understand this is not a general assessment of the value of observations over evaluations outside of the framework of NVC. Most of the examples would be perceived - at least by me - as impersonal and dishonest. Voicing observations such as “you were ten minutes late this morning” to someone who’s knowingly been late already befor…

I think you're being needlessly downvoted. Sorry.

> Voicing observations such as “you were ten minutes late this morning” to someone who’s knowingly been late already before could be easily perceived as passive aggressive.

I can see your concern, because it's not clear from the article. It is passive aggressive if you leave it at that. NVC does not recommend leaving at that - you have to state all 3: Observation, Need and Feeling[1] - and the book explicitly calls out what happens if you omit any one. In that sense, your position is in line with the NVC book.

A more complete NVC approach is:

> You were ten minutes late this morning. I was annoyed at having to wait for you and lose productivity. Could you explain why you were late?

And no, I should never assume you know you were late, or how late you were. Because I may well be wrong to begin with (my clock is wrong, got you confused with someone else, etc). Without stating this fact, you would be confused.

Or in this conversation we may discover that your watch was off, and the simple correction is to fix your watch. Or you may know you were 10 minutes late, but you also know that others tend to be 15 minutes late and you may want to bring up with me that I hold them to the same standard as I'm holding you. If any of these is true, the conversation is tougher if I don't mention that you were late by 10 minutes.

> Most of the examples read as passive aggressive to me, because you’re renouncing to a very direct evaluation that doesn’t require a specific knowledge framework and present instead your interlocutor with an emotionless remark about their actions.

Definitely true if you merely make the observation.

Edit: Another commenter raised a very good point. One of the benefits is to make the observation (without judgment) clear in your own head. It's quite easy to have your brain quickly jump to "lazy" or "tardy" - particularly for repeat offenders. And if you do that, it becomes equally easy to vocalize it, which would be a very big mistake.

In most cases, there is no good reason to make that judgment. If someone is always late, it's quite fine to fire him because he cannot be on time, without having to portray him as a "tardy" person. You and your business have your needs and he couldn't meet them. What he is need not enter into the discussion or narrative.

[1] In this case there is also a fourth: Request

Re: How to deliver constructive feedback in difficult situations (2019)

#36
post #10

"Sandwich Technique" All you ever need to know.

I've yet to find someone who like receiving those sandwiches. Only those who give it tend to like it. I work with a nice person who gives feedback in sandwiches. The upshot is no one believes his praise even when given without a sandwich. Beware.

Re: How to deliver constructive feedback in difficult situations (2019)

#37

These methods for NVC are useful because (a) they decouple analysis from emotions, and (b) they protect the target from feeling attacked, so it is possible for the target to receive the analysis instead of going into defensive mode. Daniel Dennett takes the paradigm further by adding a prequel, which is to clearly articulate the other person's logic and state of mind empathically first, before going into the analysis…

This in turn feels quite manipulative, though.

As much as it is manipulative per se, and might likely seem unnatural ("false"/"calculated"), it's at the same time quite effective. This form of communication accomplishes its stated goals, and being a natural, ummm, bloke is not it.

Re: How to deliver constructive feedback in difficult situations (2019)

#38
post #12

> great communication isn’t just about what you say, it’s about what other people hear This is very smart.

I don't know if conscious, but prima facie it is a direct complement of the famous thought:

"The most important thing in communication is to hear what isn’t being said."

Peter Drucker, interview with Bill Moyers (1989)

Re: How to deliver constructive feedback in difficult situations (2019)

#39
post #27
post #5

Ah , non-violent communication, a great tool. I've copied an excellent summary by @BeetleB To add to the above: 1. Observations should be specific, not generic ("you are lazy" vs "you have not accomplished any of the tasks you've been assigned"). They should also be objective - third party witnesses should have consensus. We can agree that you've not accomplished your tasks for the week. We will likely disagree on wh…

The only times I've actually been able to use this kind of stuff is when explicitly telling a person I work with, "Hey, I want to start improving myself and our processes. Can we set up some time for talking about feedback?" And then like once a month you do a feedback meeting, but the first one is talking about nvc/radical candor/etc and how the future meetings should go. This has only ever worked for me with people…

Your intent and persistence is enough. A team-game's outcome is dependent on the entire team. In a team-game, you alone can't do the change alone. Expect real change to take about a decade, and mostly driven by other people than yourself.

Focus on what is in your control and on the longer plays.

Re: How to deliver constructive feedback in difficult situations (2019)

#40
post #35

I think the observation vs evaluation examples are sloppy (yes, that’s an evaluation). I understand this is not a general assessment of the value of observations over evaluations outside of the framework of NVC. Most of the examples would be perceived - at least by me - as impersonal and dishonest. Voicing observations such as “you were ten minutes late this morning” to someone who’s knowingly been late already befor…

I think you're being needlessly downvoted. Sorry. > Voicing observations such as “you were ten minutes late this morning” to someone who’s knowingly been late already before could be easily perceived as passive aggressive. I can see your concern, because it's not clear from the article. It is passive aggressive if you leave it at that. NVC does not recommend leaving at that - you have to state all 3: Observation, Nee…

> You were ten minutes late this morning. I was annoyed at having to wait for you and lose productivity. Could you explain why you were late?

Honestly, this sounds even worse to me than just the observation. IMO a good test is "Would I say this to my boss? If not, then probably I shouldn't say it at all.". I would not say this to my boss. Not even close.

How about instead:

"Hey, I noticed you were a little bit late, which is unusual for you. Is everything OK?"

And if the pattern continues:

"Hey, I noticed you were a bit late in the last couple of meetings. I think it is somewhat important to be on time. Is there anything I can do to help you avoid being late next time?"

Post reply on HN