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What the interns have wrought, 2021 edition

blog.janestreet.com

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Re: What the interns have wrought, 2021 edition

#31
post #13

Whenever I hear about Jane Street and other such trading companies I wonder what do they bring of value into the world. It seems they're basically just working on increasing economic equalities.

Another practitioner, my 2c on high frequency trading:

1. Market making (providing two sided liquidity in a market), and in general providing liquidity (even one sided) is a real benefit that (some) trading firms provide (e.g. Virtu, but also many proprietary shops).

The market making function solves the time-mismatch between client A who wants to buy now, and client B who would want to sell in 1 hour.

The liquidity provision is what allows, through pay-for-order-flow, retail investors to get the best current price for AAPL through their Schwab app. Not only that, they do not have to worry about the order execution (how long would it take to get filled), and their fees are low or 0 (because someone is paying Schwab for the order flow).

2. A similar, but slightly different trade is what ensures that ETF are priced "correctly". This is also a boon for retail investors.

In order to ensure the ETF price are in line with the price implied by their underlying assets, someone need to do the "index arbitrage" trade. Again, retail gets a nice useful product (e.g. SPY which tracks S&P500) instead of having to buy a lot of stocks (naively, 500).

3. And then there are directional trades, which are basically trying to "arbitrage away" moves in correlated prices. Is there a value in this? Maybe, but it is just accelerating existing trading realities. Someone would have done it anyway.

I am guessing the perception that the industry adds no value is because of stories about the ridiculously low latency number - trade in the blink of the eye, reacting in nanoseconds, etc.

And I tend to agree.

If the exchanges changed the way they matched orders (e.g. instead of First In First Out/time priority ["who came first"]) to a procedure that introduces randomness that eliminated the advantage from nanosecond/microsecond differences, it would make no difference to the world.

The prices would still be "good enough" (no retails participants care if the prices settled within 100 nanosecond, 1microsecond, or 1 millisecond).

So to sum up, does it bring value? Yes, but it does not mean there is no silliness involved.

Re: What the interns have wrought, 2021 edition

#32
post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They’re paying their interns how much ? Either finance pays way more than I thought, or that’s wildly off - for comparison as the most senior developer in our London based organisation, having been here since the beginning, I make about $11k a month.

As a senior developer in Europe, I'm considering becoming an intern.

Definitely - although the salaries here (at least in Berlin) are raising from what I can see as well

Re: What the interns have wrought, 2021 edition

#34
post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s about the ballpark for a paid SE intern in Germany (per annum, of course).

10k per month in the Bay Area.

Yeah we’re a small startup and we pay $120k / 12 per month for interns. Otherwise it’s difficult to get interns at the level we need. Really not surprised finance pays more.

Re: What the interns have wrought, 2021 edition

#35
post #4
post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Like most companies, Jane Street also doesn't discuss pay. However, as we reported last year, pay for U.S. trading interns at Jane Street in 2020 was $14.5k a month, plus an extra $500 a week work from home stipend (making $16.5k as a monthly total) for. From https://www.efinancialcareers.com/news/finance/jane-street-p...

They’re paying their interns how much ? Either finance pays way more than I thought, or that’s wildly off - for comparison as the most senior developer in our London based organisation, having been here since the beginning, I make about $11k a month.

The lowest pay recorded for Google in London is $124,000, for L3, new grad. The lowest for L4, which you would surely get as an experienced hire, is $155,000. You get paid roughly as much as the lowest paid permanent fulltime staff at Google.

https://www.levels.fyi/comp.html?track=Software%20Engineer&s...

Re: What the interns have wrought, 2021 edition

#36
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you interested in a genuine discussion on this topic or have you already made up your mind? For those genuinely interested, for the most part trading firms employing quantitative and automated strategies look to keep the price of derivative or correlated assets in line with their underlying securities. For example a stock ABC might either directly or indirectly represent two other underlying stocks FOO1 and FOO2…

You hit on so many great points in this post. Another important function trading firms (especially market makers like Jane Street) is to serve as ready-and-willing counterparties for the pension funds, endowments, and retirement funds of the world. All of those firefighters, police officers, and teachers can't get their monthly check unless the pension funds converts part of their investment into cash, and the amount…

No they are not. Wall street is a cancer for the economy that lives on fees for allowing people to participate in an elaborate gambling game. And due to their influence in US politics, they have forced everyone to play the game, under the false premise that the stocks will always go up. Except they are not, check the European stock market that has stagnated for decades.

Companies can find investors without the stock market. Companies can pay dividends to their owners & employees. No need to have an additional speculation layer for fund raising and profit distribution.

Re: What the interns have wrought, 2021 edition

#38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course. How would they attract quality people if they didn’t pay anything?

Good mission statement and socially respectable goals? It doesn't have to be about money.

Even people who work for charities need to eat.

Re: What the interns have wrought, 2021 edition

#40
post #4
post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Like most companies, Jane Street also doesn't discuss pay. However, as we reported last year, pay for U.S. trading interns at Jane Street in 2020 was $14.5k a month, plus an extra $500 a week work from home stipend (making $16.5k as a monthly total) for. From https://www.efinancialcareers.com/news/finance/jane-street-p...

They’re paying their interns how much ? Either finance pays way more than I thought, or that’s wildly off - for comparison as the most senior developer in our London based organisation, having been here since the beginning, I make about $11k a month.

180k annualized salary for the top few students from MIT, Waterloo, Stanford etc is a steal. They might lack sophistication in navigating bureaucratic processes but I guarantee you they are far more technically competent than even your average senior engineer at a FAANG company. Most companies don't really know how to utilize people with an elite level of skill but Jane Street clearly does and is willing to pay up for it.
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