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Zillow, Other Tech Firms Are in an ‘Arms Race’ to Buy Up American Homes

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Re: Zillow, Other Tech Firms Are in an ‘Arms Race’ to Buy Up American Homes

#31

I've been interested in how to drastically upend the real estate market for quite a few years. My prefered solution involves creating a real estate backed complementary currency... This currency would be based on algorithmic appraisals of the intrinsic objective and quantifiable qualities that a particular piece of real estate had. The algorithmic appraisal would be designed to appraise the property for the same valu…

How do you get the government to pass a law that this is the only way to transact real estate?

Re: Zillow, Other Tech Firms Are in an ‘Arms Race’ to Buy Up American Homes

#32

I've been interested in how to drastically upend the real estate market for quite a few years. My prefered solution involves creating a real estate backed complementary currency... This currency would be based on algorithmic appraisals of the intrinsic objective and quantifiable qualities that a particular piece of real estate had. The algorithmic appraisal would be designed to appraise the property for the same valu…

I've had a similar idea, just that you sell your (desirable, fully repaired) home to a housing credit union in exchange for a number of shares in that union, and move out immediately or pay rent at your discretion.

The shares are publicly traded, and can be used to discount the rent or purchase price on other available properties in the union.

So you gain liquidity, diversification, and fractional ownership at the cost that the union needs to defend the total value of the tranche (so requiring repairs, not buying risky property), and it may be difficult to adjust the relative values of the properties in the tranche to reflect market conditions.

All of this sounds perfectly legal under current frameworks, and doesn't require getting an algorithmic appraisal perfect or creating a new type of coin.

Re: Zillow, Other Tech Firms Are in an ‘Arms Race’ to Buy Up American Homes

#33

I have seen my home double in value in a year. Appreciate 15% just last month alone. It is very hard to point to any non-bubble explanation for it. A neighboring home which sold 3 months ago in two days and has seen its backyard and appliances improved will go back on the market in 2 weeks at a 25% increase over the june price. It will also probably sell in a matter of days. I find it difficult to believe this is sus…

Where?

Re: Zillow, Other Tech Firms Are in an ‘Arms Race’ to Buy Up American Homes

#34
This is really about capturing agent commission at scale since they aren’t renting out houses and can’t bet on infinite appreciation.

This is a great program. The ability to sell your current house and keep living in it while buying your new house is a game changer. It removes the need for contingent offers, which in many markets have 0 chance to get accepted.

Re: Zillow, Other Tech Firms Are in an ‘Arms Race’ to Buy Up American Homes

#35

I have seen my home double in value in a year. Appreciate 15% just last month alone. It is very hard to point to any non-bubble explanation for it. A neighboring home which sold 3 months ago in two days and has seen its backyard and appliances improved will go back on the market in 2 weeks at a 25% increase over the june price. It will also probably sell in a matter of days. I find it difficult to believe this is sus…

> It is very hard to point to any non-bubble explanation for it.

> I find it difficult to believe this is sustainable.

As someone who just got approved for a million dollar loan in the Bay Area earlier this year, and decided to let that approval expire, I feel the same.

But I still feel nervous about “timing the bubble” by delaying.

Here are my “non-bubble explanations” for housing value increases:

1) Investors who want something like a bond. If you park a million dollars in a rental, let’s say you got back $3,000 a month. That’s something like a 2.3% interest rate. Not bad if your other options are 0% or less.

2) Investors who want to get out of the dollar (or any other currency): maybe they don’t care about the rental income they just don’t want cash. They want something that will track or slightly outpace cash.

3) Inflation is real. It’s happening, and in cities employers will have to increase wages to match. This is already happening for many of us, when we negotiate salary it’s not just “how big is you grocery bill”, it’s “how much do you need to pay me for me to pay a mortgage”. If city employers keep keeping up and housing stock keeps staying low then the houses really will do have value for people who need to work in the city.

4) Short term rental investors: Housing stock is now competing with hotel stock. This has the potential to be much more than $3000/month of revenue, although costs are higher to realize that revenue.

5) Government assistance: at the moment the government is paying or deferring anyone’s rent who can’t pay. Which I have to assume is reducing supply. Who knows how long this can continue. But as long as it stays true, the gain stay real.

And here are my explanations for why the value might be DECREASING:

1) Government assistance will likely end soon? And bankruptcies both of renters and landlords should increase supply and decrease demand?

2) Work from home: got a real shot in the arm from COVID, especially in the Bay Area, it seems like this might be a structural change for many companies. VR won’t affect this until headsets support eye contact, but that seems poised to happen around the timeframe COVID becomes manageable. The “end of offices” seems to be increasing in probability which would massively change the housing demand in cities.

So I don’t know. At the moment I am having a hard time believing there is that much headroom in housing prices to justify their current “only upper middle class can afford to buy housing” levels. But I really do see an argument on both sides.

Re: Zillow, Other Tech Firms Are in an ‘Arms Race’ to Buy Up American Homes

#36
post #14
post #12

I have come to see house flipping as a horrendous scam that kills the economy and is all but sustainable. And real estate agent are complicit and making the problem worse because it’s making them money One of my accountances is a professional house flipper. They claim to regularly make over 100k of profit on a single house in less that 3 months. Keep in mind they contract out all the manual labour. The 1st step is ob…

Middle men generally have negative impacts on society overall once they become entrenched. Their role becomes less service provider/facilitator and more parasitic. What’s preventing homeowners from buying and selling to each other directly? Why do we need real estate agents? (I ask as a mid 20s engineer who is probably never going to own a home)

> Middle men generally have negative impacts on society overall once they become entrenched.

This book covers some very valuable roles middlemen play: https://link.springer.com/book/10.1007/978-1-137-53020-2

> What’s preventing homeowners from buying and selling to each other directly? Why do we need real estate agents?

I wrote about this 8 years ago (was employed as a software engineer at a real estate brokerage at the time):

"I think that there are lots of marketplaces have sprung up via the internet, but as far as I know, the significant ones all offer products that have one of these characteristics:

   * the consumer buys them often [for some definition of often] (airplane tickets)
   * the product is fungible (books, cars)
   * the product is relatively cheap (stuff sold on ebay, amazon)
All of these characteristics lower the risk of purchase. Housing has none of these characteristics. And I don't know how it could, short of a real manufacturing revolution or more houses built out of shipping containers."

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5539026

Re: Zillow, Other Tech Firms Are in an ‘Arms Race’ to Buy Up American Homes

#37
post #32

I've been interested in how to drastically upend the real estate market for quite a few years. My prefered solution involves creating a real estate backed complementary currency... This currency would be based on algorithmic appraisals of the intrinsic objective and quantifiable qualities that a particular piece of real estate had. The algorithmic appraisal would be designed to appraise the property for the same valu…

I've had a similar idea, just that you sell your (desirable, fully repaired) home to a housing credit union in exchange for a number of shares in that union, and move out immediately or pay rent at your discretion. The shares are publicly traded, and can be used to discount the rent or purchase price on other available properties in the union. So you gain liquidity, diversification, and fractional ownership at the co…

You still need appraisals of some sort because no home is the same as any other, and the shares are basically the "coin".

The benefit of doing it algorithmically is that the algorithm can be updated periodically based on the time to re-sell so that it can take into account more diverse information.

As long as the appraisal is within 5% you're doing better than agent based sales, and you should get at least a 10% bump in value just for the instant liquidity factor.

I'm imagining a super fast drone appraisal process in which the entire house is scanned from every angle, and the condition of each part of the building is examined. Every facet of the property would be quantified, and objectively measured when doing the algorithmic appraisal. It could actually serve as a guide to what types of repairs will increase the value, and where maintenance is needed.

I see house flippers loving this system, so there is no need to restrict it to only homes in good repair. Contractors will be able to buy homes that need work, do work that actually increases the value as described in the appraisal system, then sell it back instantly when the work is done.

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