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Breakthrough Cases May Be a Bigger Problem Than You’ve Been Told

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Re: Breakthrough Cases May Be a Bigger Problem Than You’ve Been Told

#31

Post by infamouscow »

deegles wrote: post #19
NonContro wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why should people with natural immunity from previous exposure get it? Natural immunity provides broader protection because antibodies are generated for more of the virus, instead of just the spike protein in the case of vaccines. If there is negligible additional protection then why take the risk of vaccine injury? Why can't antibody tests be regarded in the same way as vaccination for 'passport' purposes? The CDC e…

The science on this is clear, please update your stance. Natural immunity is not as protective as vaccine induced immunity. It is in fact 2.3x more likely that you will get reinfected while unvaccinated, and a stronger immune response from the vaccine means fewer people end up hospitalized. See: > Reduced Risk of Reinfection with SARS-CoV-2 After COVID-19 Vaccination https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7032e1.ht…

The reason for this global effort was because SARS-CoV2 was overrunning healthcare systems.

The CDC also said:

> Among the 469 cases in Massachusetts residents, 346 (74%) occurred in persons who were fully vaccinated

> Among five COVID-19 patients who were hospitalized, four were fully vaccinated

In other words, 80% of infections that require hospitalization are from vaccinated patients.

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7031e2.htm

Re: Breakthrough Cases May Be a Bigger Problem Than You’ve Been Told

#32

Post by [deleted] »

dotcommand wrote: post #27
deegles wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The science on this is clear, please update your stance. Natural immunity is not as protective as vaccine induced immunity. It is in fact 2.3x more likely that you will get reinfected while unvaccinated, and a stronger immune response from the vaccine means fewer people end up hospitalized. See: > Reduced Risk of Reinfection with SARS-CoV-2 After COVID-19 Vaccination https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7032e1.ht…

> The science on this is clear, please update your stance. You are conflating science with "stats". > Natural immunity is not as protective as vaccine induced immunity. If that is true and if the science is clear, then why is that the case? What is the biological mechanism behind that? Shouldn't natural immunity be better in most cases since your body is actually fighting the real disease? Since you say the "science…

[deleted]

Re: Breakthrough Cases May Be a Bigger Problem Than You’ve Been Told

#33

Post by CodesInChaos »

NonContro wrote: post #16
randomopining wrote: post #6

Everybody should get vaccinated and then get it now. The current Delta is close enough to the OG version that your body can crush it and then get a stronger immunity towards the future lineage of the virus. If you stay in a bubble, by this winter there will be a variant that almost completely evades the vaccines and then you're back to square one. Basically we should be continuously getting immunity against the newes…

Why should people with natural immunity from previous exposure get it? Natural immunity provides broader protection because antibodies are generated for more of the virus, instead of just the spike protein in the case of vaccines. If there is negligible additional protection then why take the risk of vaccine injury? Why can't antibody tests be regarded in the same way as vaccination for 'passport' purposes? The CDC e…

I think the most important advantage of vaccines is that you get them (J&J aside) twice, which helps build long term protection. Which is why it's recommended to get a single dose of a vaccine if you caught covid, bringing you up to two exposures as well.

Re: Breakthrough Cases May Be a Bigger Problem Than You’ve Been Told

#34

Post by nradov »

blueprint wrote: post #26
nradov wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can't seriously expect people to continue social distancing. The virus is here to stay. It can't be eradicated because the vaccines aren't fully sterilizing and there are also animal hosts. The vast majority of us will eventually get infected regardless of what infection control measures we take. We'll just have to accept the risk and move on. Fortunately the vaccines are very safe and highly effective at prevent…

It's not that hard to go outside to cafes and still social distance - but people are not doing it. That's the difference.

It's sad how some HN users seem to live in bubbles and are just completely disconnected from the way that most regular people live. Humans are social animals and most won't continue social distancing regardless of the consequences. There's more to life than cafes. Most of us don't even have an outdoor cafe nearby. Also weather is a thing.

You're welcome to complain that this is terrible and it shouldn't be that way. But at some point we have to put aside wishful thinking and exist in the real world.

Re: Breakthrough Cases May Be a Bigger Problem Than You’ve Been Told

#35

Post by Mikeb85 »

NonContro wrote: post #16
randomopining wrote: post #6

Everybody should get vaccinated and then get it now. The current Delta is close enough to the OG version that your body can crush it and then get a stronger immunity towards the future lineage of the virus. If you stay in a bubble, by this winter there will be a variant that almost completely evades the vaccines and then you're back to square one. Basically we should be continuously getting immunity against the newes…

Why should people with natural immunity from previous exposure get it? Natural immunity provides broader protection because antibodies are generated for more of the virus, instead of just the spike protein in the case of vaccines. If there is negligible additional protection then why take the risk of vaccine injury? Why can't antibody tests be regarded in the same way as vaccination for 'passport' purposes? The CDC e…

> Why can't antibody tests be regarded in the same way as vaccination for 'passport' purposes?

They are for the EU vaccine green pass. A certified recovery is counted the same as being vaccinated.

Re: Breakthrough Cases May Be a Bigger Problem Than You’ve Been Told

#36

Post by Mikeb85 »

randomopining wrote: post #29
NonContro wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why should people with natural immunity from previous exposure get it? Natural immunity provides broader protection because antibodies are generated for more of the virus, instead of just the spike protein in the case of vaccines. If there is negligible additional protection then why take the risk of vaccine injury? Why can't antibody tests be regarded in the same way as vaccination for 'passport' purposes? The CDC e…

What's the risk of vaccine injury? If the percentage chance of serious vaccine injury is many times less than the chance of somewhat serious covid or long covid... a logical person would take the vaccine. If you just had covid and had a mild or moderate case, yes I could accept not getting a vaccine. What i'm talking about is moreso that people should get vaccine immunity, and then get the delta so that we don't fall…

Death, in the case of some younger (mostly women) people and the AZ vaccine. Canada and other countries literally don't use it for the reason, I believe the US hasn't certified it either. The Pfizer vaccine has been linked to some heart issues but mostly minor and with far less frequency.

(For the record, I got Pfizer)

Re: Breakthrough Cases May Be a Bigger Problem Than You’ve Been Told

#37

Post by nradov »

theodric wrote: post #23
voakbasda wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Small price to pay for herd immunity and normalcy, if it actually worked.

Spoken like someone who didn't die. Also ghoulish beyond belief.

So far 99.86% of Swedes didn't die of COVID-19.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/sweden/

Re: Breakthrough Cases May Be a Bigger Problem Than You’ve Been Told

#38

Post by blueprint »

nradov wrote: post #34
blueprint wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not that hard to go outside to cafes and still social distance - but people are not doing it. That's the difference.

It's sad how some HN users seem to live in bubbles and are just completely disconnected from the way that most regular people live. Humans are social animals and most won't continue social distancing regardless of the consequences. There's more to life than cafes. Most of us don't even have an outdoor cafe nearby. Also weather is a thing. You're welcome to complain that this is terrible and it shouldn't be that way.…

Sure, base your entire argument on knowing absolutely nothing about me. You can still go to your climbing gym and climb and socialize without sitting 2 feet apart from all your friends. Like we used to do during the pandemic. But people are choosing not to do so now. There's more to life than HN usernames.

Welcome to the actual real world. Where you will eventually have to take responsibility for your choices despite your deep denial that your choosing to ignore social distancing is actually a subconscious reaction to feeling a lack of control or something and an intentional refusal to distance. That's why you politicize it.

Re: Breakthrough Cases May Be a Bigger Problem Than You’ve Been Told

#39

Post by nradov »

CodesInChaos wrote: post #33
NonContro wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why should people with natural immunity from previous exposure get it? Natural immunity provides broader protection because antibodies are generated for more of the virus, instead of just the spike protein in the case of vaccines. If there is negligible additional protection then why take the risk of vaccine injury? Why can't antibody tests be regarded in the same way as vaccination for 'passport' purposes? The CDC e…

I think the most important advantage of vaccines is that you get them (J&J aside) twice, which helps build long term protection. Which is why it's recommended to get a single dose of a vaccine if you caught covid, bringing you up to two exposures as well.

Vaccine manufacturers are stating that people should probably get a third dose as an additional booster.

https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/coronavirus/moderna-says-a-3...

Re: Breakthrough Cases May Be a Bigger Problem Than You’ve Been Told

#40

Post by mint2 »

Mikeb85 wrote: post #36
randomopining wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's the risk of vaccine injury? If the percentage chance of serious vaccine injury is many times less than the chance of somewhat serious covid or long covid... a logical person would take the vaccine. If you just had covid and had a mild or moderate case, yes I could accept not getting a vaccine. What i'm talking about is moreso that people should get vaccine immunity, and then get the delta so that we don't fall…

Death, in the case of some younger (mostly women) people and the AZ vaccine. Canada and other countries literally don't use it for the reason, I believe the US hasn't certified it either. The Pfizer vaccine has been linked to some heart issues but mostly minor and with far less frequency. (For the record, I got Pfizer)

I think he meant to ask about rates. The term risk is slightly ambiguous.

Death or long term disability is the risk of Covid.

The rates of those outcomes are extremely higher for the actual disease.

I Feel like a lot of people are falling into a “Both sides” or “fair and balanced” type trap by over indexing on that in theory the outcome could be the same, while ignoring the elephant in the room that the odds are vastly different such that there’s not really a comparison.

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