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‘A Form of Brainwashing’: China Remakes Hong Kong

nytimes.com

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Re: ‘A Form of Brainwashing’: China Remakes Hong Kong

#31

Post by vgatherps »

danrocks wrote: post #8

I live in Hong Kong. Arrived here right when the second wave of protests started, in 2018. The speed with which China is changing the face of the city since then has been incredible, if disheartening. In a mere three years, we went from having a free press, district council elections, a vibrant online community, a combative but reasonably effective LegCo. All that is gone. Head over to the South China Morning Post an…

Similar situation here. Moved here a bit more recently than you, national security law became a thing after I arrived, and it’s been more and more aggressively enforced since.

If you’re leaving to the US, can I ask how you’re going about it? My email is in my profile if you don’t want to post here. I’m trying to leave as well but my fiancée is facing what looks like a year or two long immigration process.

It’s a bit of a shame that the U.S. government passes so many proclamations of support or “it’s dangerous in HK” statements, but makes it hard to actually return.

Re: ‘A Form of Brainwashing’: China Remakes Hong Kong

#32

Post by AussieWog93 »

TeeMassive wrote: post #28
syops wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn’t this a property of autocracy? It’s true that pretty much every implemented communist society became autocratic but there are systems - like the one in Iran - that similarly care only about the success of the party in power. The problem is not communism as such but of unchecked, concentrated power.

Taiwan used to be an autocracy too yet turned itself into a liberal democracy. At least "right wing" autocrats have goals, albeit misguided ones, and power is a mean to an end; but communist are obsessed by power and power alone.

>At least "right wing" autocrats have goals, albeit misguided ones, and power is a mean to an end; but communist are obsessed by power and power alone.

I don't think that's true at all.

Most of the Middle-Eastern dictators are "right wing" and have no goal apart from seizing and holding onto power.

On the communist side, while that would be the case for many leaders, both Ho Chi Minh and Fidel Castro come to mind as exceptions. Keeping it strictly to "CCP-style" communism, Wen Jiabao jumps out as someone who saw the CCP beauracracy as a positive means to an end.

Re: ‘A Form of Brainwashing’: China Remakes Hong Kong

#33

Post by beepbooptheory »

chrisco255 wrote: post #26
syops wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn’t this a property of autocracy? It’s true that pretty much every implemented communist society became autocratic but there are systems - like the one in Iran - that similarly care only about the success of the party in power. The problem is not communism as such but of unchecked, concentrated power.

Turns out when you philosophically align your country around the idea that the state and the collective are more important than the individual, autocracy always flourishes.

well, history in general shows autocracy flourishes whether or not the individual or the collective is primary, not sure you can claim a correlation there

Re: ‘A Form of Brainwashing’: China Remakes Hong Kong

#34

Post by AussieWog93 »

chrisco255 wrote: post #26
syops wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn’t this a property of autocracy? It’s true that pretty much every implemented communist society became autocratic but there are systems - like the one in Iran - that similarly care only about the success of the party in power. The problem is not communism as such but of unchecked, concentrated power.

Turns out when you philosophically align your country around the idea that the state and the collective are more important than the individual, autocracy always flourishes.

Just like Japan? South Korea? Taiwan? Singapore? Or on the other side, pretty much the entire Middle East?

Collectivist Asian cultures can definitely manage separation of powers and democracy.

Re: ‘A Form of Brainwashing’: China Remakes Hong Kong

#35

Post by smnrchrds »

guardiangod wrote: post #27
cletus wrote: post #7

So here's a fun fact about the "security" laws China forced down Hong Kong's gullet recently: they apply to everyone on the planet. They're vague and "subversion" pretty much includes anything you want to include. It's anything that makes the Chinese government or Chinese officials look bad, basically. So, if you're not even a citizen of China and you're sitting in Europe or the USA and you make some critical post ab…

1. The 'princess' of Huawei, Meng Wanzhou, was transferring flight in Canada when she was arrested on behalf of US. 2. China realizes this is a serious advantage and want to arrest foreign dissidents when they transfer flights in China. But no one transfers flight in any Chinese territories except in...Hong Kong, with its international airport. 3. China pressured the HK government to pass a security law that allows H…

The Meng Wanzhou case is an interesting parallel. She is a Chinese citizen who was arrested in Canada en route to Mexico for allegedly breaking American laws regarding Iran while in Hong Kong. No country comes even close to US when it comes to projecting power and having the power to bend the world to their will. It makes sense for another superpower to try to at least move in the direction of acquiring said power.

Re: ‘A Form of Brainwashing’: China Remakes Hong Kong

#36

Post by wumaodang »

danrocks wrote: post #8

I live in Hong Kong. Arrived here right when the second wave of protests started, in 2018. The speed with which China is changing the face of the city since then has been incredible, if disheartening. In a mere three years, we went from having a free press, district council elections, a vibrant online community, a combative but reasonably effective LegCo. All that is gone. Head over to the South China Morning Post an…

The city was almost destroyed in 2019. Remember the molotov cocktails? The petrol bombs? The universities that turned into war zones? The vandalism of all kinds of public property?

I don't like many of the things the Hong Kong government is doing, but I can understand why they feel they need to do it.

Re: ‘A Form of Brainwashing’: China Remakes Hong Kong

#37

Post by robbedpeter »

guardiangod wrote: post #27
cletus wrote: post #7

So here's a fun fact about the "security" laws China forced down Hong Kong's gullet recently: they apply to everyone on the planet. They're vague and "subversion" pretty much includes anything you want to include. It's anything that makes the Chinese government or Chinese officials look bad, basically. So, if you're not even a citizen of China and you're sitting in Europe or the USA and you make some critical post ab…

1. The 'princess' of Huawei, Meng Wanzhou, was transferring flight in Canada when she was arrested on behalf of US. 2. China realizes this is a serious advantage and want to arrest foreign dissidents when they transfer flights in China. But no one transfers flight in any Chinese territories except in...Hong Kong, with its international airport. 3. China pressured the HK government to pass a security law that allows H…

1.) There's a difference between suppressing civil liberty and breaking international sanctions. Meng Wanzhou and China dared the US to enforce its sanctions on Iran. They did. That's not at all equivalent to disappearing people who dare to criticize China or its communist dictatorship.

The whataboutism and misdirection in your response invalidates any point you may have buried in there. Just... stop.

Humans have rights. The sooner China grows the fuck up and comes to terms with that basic tenet of civilization, the better things will be for all of humanity.

Re: ‘A Form of Brainwashing’: China Remakes Hong Kong

#39

Post by shadilay »

wumaodang wrote: post #36
danrocks wrote: post #8

I live in Hong Kong. Arrived here right when the second wave of protests started, in 2018. The speed with which China is changing the face of the city since then has been incredible, if disheartening. In a mere three years, we went from having a free press, district council elections, a vibrant online community, a combative but reasonably effective LegCo. All that is gone. Head over to the South China Morning Post an…

The city was almost destroyed in 2019. Remember the molotov cocktails? The petrol bombs? The universities that turned into war zones? The vandalism of all kinds of public property? I don't like many of the things the Hong Kong government is doing, but I can understand why they feel they need to do it.

No one burned down an AutoZone.

Re: ‘A Form of Brainwashing’: China Remakes Hong Kong

#40

Post by dillondoyle »

wumaodang wrote: post #36
danrocks wrote: post #8

I live in Hong Kong. Arrived here right when the second wave of protests started, in 2018. The speed with which China is changing the face of the city since then has been incredible, if disheartening. In a mere three years, we went from having a free press, district council elections, a vibrant online community, a combative but reasonably effective LegCo. All that is gone. Head over to the South China Morning Post an…

The city was almost destroyed in 2019. Remember the molotov cocktails? The petrol bombs? The universities that turned into war zones? The vandalism of all kinds of public property? I don't like many of the things the Hong Kong government is doing, but I can understand why they feel they need to do it.

I think a major point here is that it's not the HK government anymore it's CCP.
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