Someone please post this to the Apple subreddit. I'd love to see hell breaking loose over there.
Tell HN: Dont upload these images to iCloud as Apple will assume its Child Porn
31–40 of 108 posts
Re: Tell HN: Dont upload these images to iCloud as Apple will assume its Child Porn
#32I've never used modern apple products, but I have a question on how apple cloud works: is it possible that simply sending these in a messenger software to someone who uses apple cloud for automatic backups could get that person flagged as a child pornographist?
The thing that everyone has their panties in a bunch about here and a that like an antivirus scanner, there will be a hash match to child abuse images when you send it.
The current practice is that Apple, Google, Microsoft, etc scan the content of your cloud storage.
The scenario that you described is a risk and has been since cloud providers started scanning 10-15 years ago. Some large companies scan their file servers as well.
Re: Tell HN: Dont upload these images to iCloud as Apple will assume its Child Porn
#33What hash algorithm are they using? If this is legitimate (I’ll be honest - I’m not clicking) then surely any hash this easy to pre-image attack is completely useless? Why wouldn’t they be using a cryptographic hash here?
Re: Tell HN: Dont upload these images to iCloud as Apple will assume its Child Porn
#34"Now you can block people in Drive. To prevent people from sharing unwanted files with you, ..." hahaha. What a coincidence, Google! So you got a hold of the neural hashes, and then used an error function and descent to generate images that match a 'hash'? It feels wrong to call them 'hashes' when they're so weak to pre-image attacks. They're not the same idea as cryptographic hashes at all. Also want to underline ho…
Some? Literally all are clearly based on pornography. First is veg&butthole, then boobs, next is doggy style etc etc (edit: it seems the order isn't consistent. So I'm likely seeing different images then you.) You can go through them all and see the original pornography if you look at the shapes. To me, it looks more like they started with the real images and tweaked them to make them artsy.
I don't know, this sounds a bit like a Rorschach test to me.
Re: Tell HN: Dont upload these images to iCloud as Apple will assume its Child Porn
#35Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Dont upload these harmless images to iCloud as Apple will assume its Child Porn (CSAM) This is not true. They may match the hash, but the will not match the visual derivative. The system is not as easily fooled as you think.
> The system is not as easily fooled as you think. I would like to believe that is true, but the negative consequences of even generating a false-positive is enough to not attempt to upload any image.
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Re: Tell HN: Dont upload these images to iCloud as Apple will assume its Child Porn
#36Just uploaded them all to my iCloud.
They way I see it, this is the best photo backup approach one can possibly take. Just get flagged for child porn, and have all your iPhone photos stored indefinitely on FBI servers.
Does the FBI have geo-redundancy?
Re: Tell HN: Dont upload these images to iCloud as Apple will assume its Child Porn
#37"Now you can block people in Drive. To prevent people from sharing unwanted files with you, ..." hahaha. What a coincidence, Google! So you got a hold of the neural hashes, and then used an error function and descent to generate images that match a 'hash'? It feels wrong to call them 'hashes' when they're so weak to pre-image attacks. They're not the same idea as cryptographic hashes at all. Also want to underline ho…
I assumed that these are reverse engineered from legitimately illegal and problematic porn of known origin. Not sure exactly how you'd go about doing it, but it seems like there might be a process for 'evening out' areas into solid color that maintains the hash? In which case you're running extensive image processing on illegal images and making variations from those very images. More info on how this is done?
Genuine question: If those image were really generated from illegal porn, are those images themselves considered illegal? Or in other words: How much do you have to modify illegal images for them to become legal again? Or do they stay illegal no matter how much you transform them?
Re: Tell HN: Dont upload these images to iCloud as Apple will assume its Child Porn
#38Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Dont upload these harmless images to iCloud as Apple will assume its Child Porn (CSAM) This is not true. They may match the hash, but the will not match the visual derivative. The system is not as easily fooled as you think.
> The system is not as easily fooled as you think. I would like to believe that is true, but the negative consequences of even generating a false-positive is enough to not attempt to upload any image.
I tend to disagree here...
Based on the documentation from Apple, they are waiting to get *several* matches, *not only one* (we don't know what is *several* but I don't expect something like If yes, after the manual process, the authorities are called.
Re: Tell HN: Dont upload these images to iCloud as Apple will assume its Child Porn
#39Just uploaded them all to my iCloud. They way I see it, this is the best photo backup approach one can possibly take. Just get flagged for child porn, and have all your iPhone photos stored indefinitely on FBI servers. Does the FBI have geo-redundancy?
Thanks for your service.
Re: Tell HN: Dont upload these images to iCloud as Apple will assume its Child Porn
#40How do you generate an image like this from a hash?