Surveys show Americans want more walkable cities • Hacker News Board

Re: Surveys show Americans want more walkable cities

#31

Post by notJim » Fri, Aug 06, 2021, 10:59 PM UTC

standardUser wrote: post #4

Add up the roads, parking spaces, parking garages, gas stations (not to mention auto shops, drive thrus and car washes) and the total urban footprint is a gargantuan 50-60% by many calculations. That's not automatically a bad thing, especially if you are a car, but all of that space creates massive buffers separating all of the other stuff that humans want to walk to. To make it worse, those buffers are far and away…

Something I only recently learned is that zoning rules generally require housing developments to include a certain amount of parking. This drives up the cost of housing, because of the space required (either up or out.) Many cities are reducing or eliminating these requirements in an effort to make housing more affordable. However, it does mean that parking will become harder, as there will be more competition for street spaces.

Re: Surveys show Americans want more walkable cities

#32

Post by version_five » Fri, Aug 06, 2021, 10:59 PM UTC

yellow_lead wrote: post #16

version_five wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's hardest to find, and what I prefer, is somewhere it's easy to walk and drive. I've lived in walkable places where if you do have to drive, traffic is a nightmare. And then of course there are places where you can drive without traffic but there is nowhere to walk to. I think I prefer the latter with my lifestyle, though it becomes more frustrating for meeting friends, going our for dinner + drinks, etc. For sp…

Where have you been that has both? From my reading, it seems like cities need to prioritize walkable / bikable OR cars, but I've never seen example of a city doing both well.

Ottawa, Canada is pretty good for this. It's a pretty small city but has a few neighborhoods that would be considered walkable, while in 20 minutes you can be out into the country. Compared with Toronto or Montreal where in 20 min if you're lucky you've entered a highway so you can sit in traffic for an hour to clear the city. Not sure about in the US.

Re: Surveys show Americans want more walkable cities

#33

Post by bllguo » Fri, Aug 06, 2021, 10:59 PM UTC

cletus wrote: post #17

No, they don’t. This is a classic example of listening to what people say vs observing what they do. And it’s a good lesson in product development. Ask your users “do you want X?” And the answer is inevitably “yes”. Ask them “do you want A or B?” And you’ll start to get a better approximation of user behavior. Better yet is observing actual behavior. In this case Americans have chosen the suburbs in droves. Americans…

Agreed. If we truly wanted them we would be willing to give up car ownership, single family homes, and suburban sprawl. I doubt that will ever happen in this hyper-individualistic culture. Hopefully it is uncontroversial by now to say that an enormous swath of American society does not believe in self-sacrifice.

Re: Surveys show Americans want more walkable cities

#34

Post by QuarterReptile » Fri, Aug 06, 2021, 11:00 PM UTC

kory wrote: post #3

I want to live in a walkable streetcar suburb: * Reasonably sized (2-3k soft) lots * Homes built with a variety of beautiful architecture * Area is not overbuilt to the point where all greenery and sunlight are gone and replaced by large buildings * alleys behind the lot, with garages hidden, to keep a single car (which is still really necessary in modern life) * small, thin, tree-lined streets * within walking dista…

The narrow streets with trees is essential. When I used to live in San Diego, the street next to my house, 1 lane in each direction plus parking, was at least 40 ft wide. It was treacherous to cross and obviously people flew down it.

Now I live in a temperate east coast city with tree canopies across the street, which in front of my house is only 19 ft wide. I know because it's narrow enough that I was able to use a normal tape measure. 19 ft accommodates parking on one side, with just barely enough space to squeeze two cars passing each other (though in reality they take turns, as at a narrow bridge.) Still plenty of room for ambulances and fire trucks, and ample space for the police to drive recklessly fast.

Re: Surveys show Americans want more walkable cities

#35

Post by notJim » Fri, Aug 06, 2021, 11:00 PM UTC

harryh wrote: post #25

cletus wrote: post #17

No, they don’t. This is a classic example of listening to what people say vs observing what they do. And it’s a good lesson in product development. Ask your users “do you want X?” And the answer is inevitably “yes”. Ask them “do you want A or B?” And you’ll start to get a better approximation of user behavior. Better yet is observing actual behavior. In this case Americans have chosen the suburbs in droves. Americans…

There is some truth in this post, but it's also important to understand that in most of the places with very large lots, it is illegal to subdivide the lots and build denser housing. If greater density was legalized, it would almost certainly be built and inhabited in a great many places.

People have this all-or-nothing thinking about this, but realistically most cities ought to have a mix. A single person in their 20s doesn't necessarily need or want a house with a yard, but they might want one later on. Right now, in most places that means allowing more options for apartments to be built, and more medium-density for people who are somewhere in between.

Re: Surveys show Americans want more walkable cities

#36

Post by masterof0 » Fri, Aug 06, 2021, 11:01 PM UTC

foxpurple wrote: post #2

I recently moved from a house in the suburbs in Australia to an apartment in the city. Got rid of my car and now I just walk to everything I need. I couldn’t be happier. Driving was such a huge stress on my life that is now gone. I can get anything I need within a 10 minute walk. The thing is it just doesn’t seem like the average person is willing to give up single family houses to gain walkability. For me, I would n…

I have the same experience. I live in a city where every place I need to go to is at walking distance. Rarely I take an Uber , an even then , is way cheaper than having a car loan, car insurance and gas expenses. Every time I mention this topic here in the US, people seem to get a little bit defensive, and say: "America is so great, that everyone can afford cars and no one takes the bus".

Re: Surveys show Americans want more walkable cities

#37

Post by tadfisher » Fri, Aug 06, 2021, 11:01 PM UTC

DoreenMichele wrote: post #23

I think one of the things we need to do is actively work at decoupling parking from specific buildings. We currently require x number of parking spaces per residential unit or per commercial venue and it helps keep us trapped in a situation where you need a car to make your life work. We need to find ways to accommodate parking in a way that helps us be flexible and let's people who prefer cars keep them without maki…

When visiting family in Germany I really enjoyed the practice in smaller towns of having one large parking facility outside of the city center, and having basically no parking available in the city center itself. The psychological sensation was uplifting, because normally when walking in a city I am subconsciously aware of the ever-present danger of death by automobile and all of my movements reflect that.

Re: Surveys show Americans want more walkable cities

#38

Post by notJim » Fri, Aug 06, 2021, 11:04 PM UTC

kory wrote: post #3

I want to live in a walkable streetcar suburb: * Reasonably sized (2-3k soft) lots * Homes built with a variety of beautiful architecture * Area is not overbuilt to the point where all greenery and sunlight are gone and replaced by large buildings * alleys behind the lot, with garages hidden, to keep a single car (which is still really necessary in modern life) * small, thin, tree-lined streets * within walking dista…

How do you feel about medium density? I live in a neighborhood with some of the qualities you describe, and it has lots of small courtyard condos, and 2-3 story apartment buildings. These would've been illegal to build up until the last year or so, but I feel like they're not at all disruptive. I would say even a 5 story building on the main streets is fine in the kind of neighborhood you're describing. This gets you a lot of density without necessarily changing the feel of the neighborhood that much.

Re: Surveys show Americans want more walkable cities

#39

Post by elihu » Fri, Aug 06, 2021, 11:05 PM UTC

cletus wrote: post #17

No, they don’t. This is a classic example of listening to what people say vs observing what they do. And it’s a good lesson in product development. Ask your users “do you want X?” And the answer is inevitably “yes”. Ask them “do you want A or B?” And you’ll start to get a better approximation of user behavior. Better yet is observing actual behavior. In this case Americans have chosen the suburbs in droves. Americans…

A quarter acre is a little over 10,000 square feet, which is what I'd consider a normal-size lot in a normal town. A 5,000 square foot lot is smallish, but pretty typical of new construction. I leave near Portland, OR.

One way to have large lots and walkable cities at the same time is just to have smaller cities or towns. People are drawn to large urban areas because that's where the jobs are and that's where the interesting people and things to do are. If we had more towns that were desirable places to live, it would go a long way towards fixing the housing shortages and long commutes and so on that are typical of major cities. (This is easier said than done, though.)

Re: Surveys show Americans want more walkable cities

#40

Post by dkhenry » Fri, Aug 06, 2021, 11:05 PM UTC

If you want more walkable cities you have to stop subsidizing the suburban sprawl that has been paid for with debt spending. The infrastructure that is falling apart around us is happening because its unsustainable, and if we just print 1T dollars every few years to kick the can down the road all you do is create a bigger problem to be solved in 20 years.