Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Whistleblowers expose corruption in EPA Chemical Safety Office

theintercept.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

31–40 of 67 posts

Re: Whistleblowers expose corruption in EPA Chemical Safety Office

#31

Post by mandmandam »

hanniabu wrote: post #29
cogman10 wrote: post #18

This is, frankly, the legacy of the Trump administration. This story of blatant corruption to favor businesses was common throughout the federal government. The Trump admin went out of it's way to both install the worst of the worst and to push out as many competent federal employees as possible. Prime examples of Trump swamp creatures include such hits as Ajit Pai, Scott Pruitt (Who likely started the policies of th…

Not sure why you're getting so heavily voted for something so blatantly obvious.

Probably because the article expressly states:

> “The problems in OCSPP are not due solely to the Trump administration and its appointees,” said Bennett. “The issues faced by our clients occurred before Trump took office, during the Trump years, and continue now.”

Re: Whistleblowers expose corruption in EPA Chemical Safety Office

#32

Post by [deleted] »

hanniabu wrote: post #29
cogman10 wrote: post #18

This is, frankly, the legacy of the Trump administration. This story of blatant corruption to favor businesses was common throughout the federal government. The Trump admin went out of it's way to both install the worst of the worst and to push out as many competent federal employees as possible. Prime examples of Trump swamp creatures include such hits as Ajit Pai, Scott Pruitt (Who likely started the policies of th…

Not sure why you're getting so heavily voted for something so blatantly obvious.

[deleted]

Re: Whistleblowers expose corruption in EPA Chemical Safety Office

#33

Post by specialist »

voxic11 wrote: post #4
sschueller wrote: post #2

It won't be a vaccine that makes you sterile. It will be one of the chemicals that end up everywhere because of corruption at the only agency that would protect us. This is also why those people for a unregulated free market are insane. Sure the company pedaling the dangerous chemical will eventual go out of business. But how many people will die and suffer and does anyone think that the people responsible will still…

New chemicals save lives as well, they may be safer than existing alternatives or enable safer processes to be used or they may enable some new technology that saves lives (there is almost unlimited potential here, few areas of technological advancement are as wide impacting as improvements to materials). It sounds like you are advocating for the precautionary principle, but what do you think about the counterargumen…

Do you release products without testing them? That's the precautionary principle.

Re: Whistleblowers expose corruption in EPA Chemical Safety Office

#34

Post by revolvingocelot »

voxic11 wrote: post #4
sschueller wrote: post #2

It won't be a vaccine that makes you sterile. It will be one of the chemicals that end up everywhere because of corruption at the only agency that would protect us. This is also why those people for a unregulated free market are insane. Sure the company pedaling the dangerous chemical will eventual go out of business. But how many people will die and suffer and does anyone think that the people responsible will still…

New chemicals save lives as well, they may be safer than existing alternatives or enable safer processes to be used or they may enable some new technology that saves lives (there is almost unlimited potential here, few areas of technological advancement are as wide impacting as improvements to materials). It sounds like you are advocating for the precautionary principle, but what do you think about the counterargumen…

>New chemicals save lives as well [...] what do you think about the counterargument that by blocking technological improvements before actually investigating their risk you could be doing more harm than you prevent.

What about chemicals that are relentlessly studied, but for some reason can't seem to be regulated at all? Try reading a little about PFAS, darling wonderchemical of DuPont, which is in everything from takeout containers to furniture to dental floss, will never break down in the environment, and causes everything from low birth weight to decreased penis size to cancer. [0]

This is preventable harm, but note how this awful chemical is regulated by no one, and can barely be tested for. Oh, wait, they're going to regula--

"Amid growing public concern, the EPA announced in February it would begin the process of regulating PFOA and PFAS in the next two years (these regulations, if issued, would not apply to other PFAS chemicals)." [0]

Look at how incredibly difficult it is to prevent the blanketing of the world with PFAS, and how toothless the too-late regulation of it -- and not its structural analogues -- will be. The only entities seemingly capable of new chemistry are utterly disinterested with the consequences, and the impotent regulators won't force them to care: it's insane to support new chemical development. It's going to be poison.

[0] https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/may/23/pfas-everyda...

Re: Whistleblowers expose corruption in EPA Chemical Safety Office

#35

Post by cinntaile »

briefcomment wrote: post #20
voisin wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am sorry to hear about the personal impact to your family. I think things like the air quality sensor you run are the actual solution here. In the absence of government officials doing their job properly, it is up to individuals to do it for themselves. I wonder if there would be an open source solution for water quality testing and air quality testing, and if enough could be built by citizen hackers to create a di…

I like PurpleAir's crowdsourced air quality map[1]. Their sensors are one of the few that get down to the .3 micrometer level. [1] https://www.purpleair.com/map

Is there something similar where you buy the separate parts yourself and put it together? 280 usd is quite steep.

Re: Whistleblowers expose corruption in EPA Chemical Safety Office

#36

Post by specialist »

IfOnlyYouKnew wrote: post #21
voxic11 wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

New chemicals save lives as well, they may be safer than existing alternatives or enable safer processes to be used or they may enable some new technology that saves lives (there is almost unlimited potential here, few areas of technological advancement are as wide impacting as improvements to materials). It sounds like you are advocating for the precautionary principle, but what do you think about the counterargumen…

If you allow the sale & use of new chemicals before they are proven to be safe, you don’t just run the risk of them eventually turning out to be unsafe. You also remove all incentives to actually investigate their safety. We’ve also found most of the low-hanging fruits of material science. Can you think of a single new chemical that came out in the last decade or two that is worth the risk of something like, say, Tef…

Yes and:

The Andromeda Strain [1969] predates State of Fear [2004].

Jill Lepore's sympathetic take is the Vietnam War, MKULTRA, and other US Govt scandals broke Crichton.

https://www.thelastarchive.com/season-2/episode-6-it-came-fr...

My opinion of Crichton is much harsher. Probably the nicest thing I could say about him is he made a lot of money sowing fear and mistrust.

Re: Whistleblowers expose corruption in EPA Chemical Safety Office

#37

Post by reedjosh »

voisin wrote: post #12
kingsloi wrote: post #3

My little girl was born with really rare heart disease and a genetic condition, a boy a few streets behind us developed a really rare cancer. - https://kingsley.sh/posts/2021/staggering-cost-of-surviving-... - https://www.cnn.com/2020/11/18/us/ben-watkins-masterchef/ind... This comes a year or so after a ArcelorMittal spilled ammonia and cyanide into Lake Michigan, and didn't sound the alarm for a few days. My wife a…

I am sorry to hear about the personal impact to your family. I think things like the air quality sensor you run are the actual solution here. In the absence of government officials doing their job properly, it is up to individuals to do it for themselves. I wonder if there would be an open source solution for water quality testing and air quality testing, and if enough could be built by citizen hackers to create a di…

> In the absence of government officials doing their job properly, it is up to individuals to do it for themselves.

I agree, I just wish the government would also not take my money to not do the job. Worse still is the false sense of safety instilled in the populace.

Re: Whistleblowers expose corruption in EPA Chemical Safety Office

#38

Post by rz2k »

kingsloi wrote: post #22
briefcomment wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like PurpleAir's crowdsourced air quality map[1]. Their sensors are one of the few that get down to the .3 micrometer level. [1] https://www.purpleair.com/map

I agree! I love their open API, too! I'm in the process of creating a 501c, and as part of my mission to raise awareness, I'm going to purchase 5-10 PurpleAir II and have them across Lake Michigan's entire shoreline. Or, that's part of my plan. Ideally I'd run a more extensive sensor that tracks more than just PM, but I have a feeling pollution varies a lot in a small distance, we get lake effect weather, but what ab…

The Purple Air network and their map is great. Each has two Plantower PMS5003 sensors for redundancy or accuracy. However, you can purchase the Plantower sensors yourself at about $15/unit, which could help with the costs when you're trying to roll out a lot of them.

Re: Whistleblowers expose corruption in EPA Chemical Safety Office

#39

Post by ClumsyPilot »

voisin wrote: post #12
kingsloi wrote: post #3

My little girl was born with really rare heart disease and a genetic condition, a boy a few streets behind us developed a really rare cancer. - https://kingsley.sh/posts/2021/staggering-cost-of-surviving-... - https://www.cnn.com/2020/11/18/us/ben-watkins-masterchef/ind... This comes a year or so after a ArcelorMittal spilled ammonia and cyanide into Lake Michigan, and didn't sound the alarm for a few days. My wife a…

I am sorry to hear about the personal impact to your family. I think things like the air quality sensor you run are the actual solution here. In the absence of government officials doing their job properly, it is up to individuals to do it for themselves. I wonder if there would be an open source solution for water quality testing and air quality testing, and if enough could be built by citizen hackers to create a di…

>"In the absence of government officials doing their job properly, it is up to individuals to do it for themselves."

Does 'it' include seizing the means of pollution and dismantling them brick by brick? Otherwise you'll be in same situation as my town in Russia, where everyone knowns about a polluting zink refunery upwind, and it's still giving thousands of people cancer.

Re: Whistleblowers expose corruption in EPA Chemical Safety Office

#40

Post by _jal »

wbl wrote: post #17
voisin wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Probably trying to avoid libel since nothing has been proven in court.

Truth is an absolute defense to libel in the US. Furthermore because this is the sort of reporting on a matter of public concern that society benefits from the standard gets tighter: it's not enough to show something was false, you have to show the publication should have known or acted maliciously in publishing. Incredibly high bar.

Yeah, but you still have to defend it in court, and that's an expensive distraction.

There is currently a bit of a rash of high-profile, low-probability-of-success libels suits going on. It wouldn't surprise me a bit if publishers are being especially cautious.

Post reply on HN