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EmacsConf 2021 Call for Proposals

emacsconf.org

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Re: EmacsConf 2021 Call for Proposals

#31

Post by pdimitar »

taeric wrote: post #30
pdimitar wrote: post #26

Rant incoming. Dub it flamey or justified, it's up to you. I am posting it because this is one of my last hopes to make amends with Emacs. I accidentally used it for ~19 years -- my first ever team taught me it and I've never bothered to learn anything much else beyond Eclipse and VS Code. So how about a more modern take on Emacs that doesn't pull punches? Let's go. 1. Finally use a proper LISP like Common Lisp, SBCL…

I'm curious what OS you are in. Unless I am over a slow tramp connection, it isn't common for me to see any lag in the editor. And it is amusing that async through a buffer has always been possible. Just far more common for folks to not go that route on round one.

macOS.

Can you give me a hint on how to do the async LSP thing then? I never was actually interested in becoming a master in Emacs. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Re: EmacsConf 2021 Call for Proposals

#32

Post by taeric »

pdimitar wrote: post #31
taeric wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm curious what OS you are in. Unless I am over a slow tramp connection, it isn't common for me to see any lag in the editor. And it is amusing that async through a buffer has always been possible. Just far more common for folks to not go that route on round one.

macOS. Can you give me a hint on how to do the async LSP thing then? I never was actually interested in becoming a master in Emacs. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Apologies, I meant that async had long been doable in emacs. Compilation mode being a clear example of what that could look like.

That said, most of the newest lsp code is built with the idea that calls out to the server are fast enough to just block.

Re: EmacsConf 2021 Call for Proposals

#33

Post by zdragnar »

taeric wrote: post #30
pdimitar wrote: post #26

Rant incoming. Dub it flamey or justified, it's up to you. I am posting it because this is one of my last hopes to make amends with Emacs. I accidentally used it for ~19 years -- my first ever team taught me it and I've never bothered to learn anything much else beyond Eclipse and VS Code. So how about a more modern take on Emacs that doesn't pull punches? Let's go. 1. Finally use a proper LISP like Common Lisp, SBCL…

I'm curious what OS you are in. Unless I am over a slow tramp connection, it isn't common for me to see any lag in the editor. And it is amusing that async through a buffer has always been possible. Just far more common for folks to not go that route on round one.

Not OP, but macOS here on a MacBook Pro less than a year old. Emacs has always tempted me, but a number of commands take roughly 2-5x the time compared to something like vscode.

Every time I get back to trying out emacs again, I find myself wondering why I would bother with the massive time sink to get it customized to be a sub-par equivalent to another tool that works better for me.

Doom emacs comes the closest for pre-configured setups, but even that isn't halfway to the productivity of what I am trying to replace.

What I really wish is sublime had gone with something other than python for plugins, and was more scriptable overall...

Re: EmacsConf 2021 Call for Proposals

#34

Post by Jtsummers »

pdimitar wrote: post #26

Rant incoming. Dub it flamey or justified, it's up to you. I am posting it because this is one of my last hopes to make amends with Emacs. I accidentally used it for ~19 years -- my first ever team taught me it and I've never bothered to learn anything much else beyond Eclipse and VS Code. So how about a more modern take on Emacs that doesn't pull punches? Let's go. 1. Finally use a proper LISP like Common Lisp, SBCL…

Re (3):

There is a terminal-only version, and it's not even new. It should be available without any build flags, though maybe you'll need a launch flag. Try emacs -nw from the terminal if emacs by itself launches a GUI window for you.

Re: EmacsConf 2021 Call for Proposals

#35

Post by pdimitar »

Jtsummers wrote: post #34
pdimitar wrote: post #26

Rant incoming. Dub it flamey or justified, it's up to you. I am posting it because this is one of my last hopes to make amends with Emacs. I accidentally used it for ~19 years -- my first ever team taught me it and I've never bothered to learn anything much else beyond Eclipse and VS Code. So how about a more modern take on Emacs that doesn't pull punches? Let's go. 1. Finally use a proper LISP like Common Lisp, SBCL…

Re (3): There is a terminal-only version, and it's not even new. It should be available without any build flags, though maybe you'll need a launch flag. Try emacs -nw from the terminal if emacs by itself launches a GUI window for you.

Yep, did that a while ago, was very disappointed how much coloring do you lose by doing it, for seemingly no good reason. :(

Could be my config but dude, it's a 99% almost pristine Spacemacs config. You can't get much more vanilla than that.

Re: EmacsConf 2021 Call for Proposals

#36

Post by pdimitar »

zdragnar wrote: post #33
taeric wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm curious what OS you are in. Unless I am over a slow tramp connection, it isn't common for me to see any lag in the editor. And it is amusing that async through a buffer has always been possible. Just far more common for folks to not go that route on round one.

Not OP, but macOS here on a MacBook Pro less than a year old. Emacs has always tempted me, but a number of commands take roughly 2-5x the time compared to something like vscode. Every time I get back to trying out emacs again, I find myself wondering why I would bother with the massive time sink to get it customized to be a sub-par equivalent to another tool that works better for me. Doom emacs comes the closest for…

That's why I am 99% likely to move to NeoVim (or LunarVim which steps on it). LuaJIT looks like a very easy script language to learn, with minimal quirks -- at least on the first few looks.

Re: EmacsConf 2021 Call for Proposals

#37

Post by pdimitar »

taeric wrote: post #32
pdimitar wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

macOS. Can you give me a hint on how to do the async LSP thing then? I never was actually interested in becoming a master in Emacs. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Apologies, I meant that async had long been doable in emacs. Compilation mode being a clear example of what that could look like. That said, most of the newest lsp code is built with the idea that calls out to the server are fast enough to just block.

Thank you for clarifying, much appreciated. <3

Re: EmacsConf 2021 Call for Proposals

#38

Post by p_l »

gumby wrote: post #28
p_l wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The AI ITS machines I think weren't used by non-technical users much, the TOPS-20 machines might be, but the anecdote I heard was always in context of Multics, which had much more explicit time sharing story behind it (with computing as utility).

I don’t know why you say that — the ITS machines were used by everybody in 545 tech square, researchers, admins and “secretaries” alike (both AI and LCS), from when I was there until they were gradually retired. The one TOPS-20 machine, Oz, didn’t arrive until times had changed and a lot of alternatives were already in use. As for time sharing: ITS stands for “Incompatible Timesharing System” (a joke on CTSS), with m…

Multics was also at 545 tech square, from 1967 to 1988.

ITS version 1 is counted from 1967 as well (first mentions of PDP-6 ITS), simply because Project MAC couldn't deliver computing resources needed by other groups, not to mention AI Lab tended to modify the hw all the time (a fate AFAIK common to all ITS systems).

The anecdote about secretaries extending Emacs came from RMS, describing a group that used the shared "utility" computing resources provided by Project MAC (later turned into LCS) and who used a manual that didn't mention the word programming, compiled by who-knows-who, which showed how to modify Multics Emacs (which was the second Lisp-based Emacs) to user's liking.

Re: EmacsConf 2021 Call for Proposals

#39

Post by alex_smart »

pdimitar wrote: post #35
Jtsummers wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Re (3): There is a terminal-only version, and it's not even new. It should be available without any build flags, though maybe you'll need a launch flag. Try emacs -nw from the terminal if emacs by itself launches a GUI window for you.

Yep, did that a while ago, was very disappointed how much coloring do you lose by doing it, for seemingly no good reason. :( Could be my config but dude, it's a 99% almost pristine Spacemacs config. You can't get much more vanilla than that.

>pristine Spacemacs

>vanilla

What? :O

Spacemacs is like 50k LOC away from vanilla config.

Re: EmacsConf 2021 Call for Proposals

#40

Post by rcgorton »

Proposal: emacs is now irrelevant. Stabilize it, freeze and kill "future development". Oh, sorry, emacs 'development' is solely about emacs, rather than being about productivity. Too bad that emacs is more about DECs TECO than reality.
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